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	<title>Comments on: The Tangled Web of the Stevens Trial</title>
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	<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/</link>
	<description>Tiptoeing Through the Muck of Alaskan Politics</description>
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		<title>By: opit</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10612</link>
		<dc:creator>opit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10612</guid>
		<description>You haven&#039;t come to the end of the Dysfunction Trail yet : not by a long walk. Get a load of this : http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/16/1209/85649/949/516706</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You haven&#8217;t come to the end of the Dysfunction Trail yet : not by a long walk. Get a load of this : <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/16/1209/85649/949/516706">http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/16/1209/85649/949/516706</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lara</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10498</link>
		<dc:creator>Lara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10498</guid>
		<description>@ DrChillNo Gravatar
 Part of me agrees with you - did he or didn&#039;t he. And I thnk he did.  I hang my hat on the Clintonesque statement he made (in sum and substance): It wasn&#039;t a gift because I didn&#039;t like it and didn&#039;t want and it was just sitting in my house for several years because ..... ??.  This is simply a lawyer redefining the word &quot;gift&quot; as having something to do with the response of the recipient.

HOWEVER
  I do find selective prosecutions more troublesome than conviction for failure to report something that I&#039;ll bet a whole lot of Senators aren&#039;t reporting, and/or are creating new definitions to avoid reporting, and/or are volitionally deaf and blind to keep them from reporting.
  My opinion is that there isn&#039;t a Senator and Rep alive who either isn&#039;t skirting some issue, perhaps on this side of the line or perhaps on the other side, OR who can&#039;t be made to look guilty of some transgression, at least in an indictment.  And if the AG&#039;s office is allowed selective prosecution of representatives, we cease to have a democracy.

  Personally, I&#039;d like to see the AG&#039;s office prosecuted for something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ DrChillNo Gravatar<br />
 Part of me agrees with you &#8211; did he or didn&#8217;t he. And I thnk he did.  I hang my hat on the Clintonesque statement he made (in sum and substance): It wasn&#8217;t a gift because I didn&#8217;t like it and didn&#8217;t want and it was just sitting in my house for several years because &#8230;.. ??.  This is simply a lawyer redefining the word &#8220;gift&#8221; as having something to do with the response of the recipient.</p>
<p>HOWEVER<br />
  I do find selective prosecutions more troublesome than conviction for failure to report something that I&#8217;ll bet a whole lot of Senators aren&#8217;t reporting, and/or are creating new definitions to avoid reporting, and/or are volitionally deaf and blind to keep them from reporting.<br />
  My opinion is that there isn&#8217;t a Senator and Rep alive who either isn&#8217;t skirting some issue, perhaps on this side of the line or perhaps on the other side, OR who can&#8217;t be made to look guilty of some transgression, at least in an indictment.  And if the AG&#8217;s office is allowed selective prosecution of representatives, we cease to have a democracy.</p>
<p>  Personally, I&#8217;d like to see the AG&#8217;s office prosecuted for something.</p>
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		<title>By: DrChill</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10489</link>
		<dc:creator>DrChill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10489</guid>
		<description>This mess isn&#039;t quite so complex to me. But maybe its just me.
Did Stevens fill out the required forms with full disclosure ? No? Pleading ignorance of the &#039;value of the things because his wife takes care of those things? 

Lawmakers should not delegate their responsibility to comply with a law requiring lawmakers to be held accountable.

The defense of -&#039;the law doesn&#039;t apply to me because I didn&#039;t take my responsibility seriously&#039;, doesn&#039;t wash, IMO.

Does that help simplify things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This mess isn&#8217;t quite so complex to me. But maybe its just me.<br />
Did Stevens fill out the required forms with full disclosure ? No? Pleading ignorance of the &#8216;value of the things because his wife takes care of those things? </p>
<p>Lawmakers should not delegate their responsibility to comply with a law requiring lawmakers to be held accountable.</p>
<p>The defense of -&#8217;the law doesn&#8217;t apply to me because I didn&#8217;t take my responsibility seriously&#8217;, doesn&#8217;t wash, IMO.</p>
<p>Does that help simplify things?</p>
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		<title>By: petepeta</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10460</link>
		<dc:creator>petepeta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10460</guid>
		<description>Joy had problems with his boss and made charges. As was correctly stated, there is no whistleblower if there is no retaliation. I just don&#039;t see how Joy&#039;s charges are going to lead to getting the convictions thrown out. 

 I don&#039;t begrudge the ADN trying to boost circulation, but this  is all the ADN doing their best to spice up what is basically no story and Stevens supporters doing their best to keep the dream alive. It is interesting to compare with the  Washington Post trial coverage. WP reporters are appartently  a lot more used to seeing crooked politicians on trial in D.C., their trial coverage was a lot more matter of fact, without most of the drama  and defense flourishes reported by the ADN.    
 It is certainly  possible something may come out of the investigation of the prosecutors, but we&#039;ll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joy had problems with his boss and made charges. As was correctly stated, there is no whistleblower if there is no retaliation. I just don&#8217;t see how Joy&#8217;s charges are going to lead to getting the convictions thrown out. </p>
<p> I don&#8217;t begrudge the ADN trying to boost circulation, but this  is all the ADN doing their best to spice up what is basically no story and Stevens supporters doing their best to keep the dream alive. It is interesting to compare with the  Washington Post trial coverage. WP reporters are appartently  a lot more used to seeing crooked politicians on trial in D.C., their trial coverage was a lot more matter of fact, without most of the drama  and defense flourishes reported by the ADN.<br />
 It is certainly  possible something may come out of the investigation of the prosecutors, but we&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: phoebe</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10458</link>
		<dc:creator>phoebe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10458</guid>
		<description>The amazing thing about the Cheney thing is... he was so busy covering his own sweet ass...he really didn&#039;t know how badly hurt his friend was.  By the time the cops got there they were all sitting around the table having dinner.  Very strange.  Regarding the Cheney/Stevens relationship...think there is validity in it. Read an article about it &amp; it made sense. There is so much &quot;gift giving&quot; to politicians thought it was strange they focused on that &amp; him.  Not saying he&#039;s innocent, just saying maybe they were looking for something.  Hope the same rings true for Ms Palin .....there&#039;s plenty there if the powers that be choose to look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amazing thing about the Cheney thing is&#8230; he was so busy covering his own sweet ass&#8230;he really didn&#8217;t know how badly hurt his friend was.  By the time the cops got there they were all sitting around the table having dinner.  Very strange.  Regarding the Cheney/Stevens relationship&#8230;think there is validity in it. Read an article about it &amp; it made sense. There is so much &#8220;gift giving&#8221; to politicians thought it was strange they focused on that &amp; him.  Not saying he&#8217;s innocent, just saying maybe they were looking for something.  Hope the same rings true for Ms Palin &#8230;..there&#8217;s plenty there if the powers that be choose to look.</p>
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		<title>By: Lara</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10457</link>
		<dc:creator>Lara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10457</guid>
		<description>@ grewingk:
  YOu make some interesting points.  however, it doesn&#039;t explain his explanation of receiving a gift that he didn&#039;t want and wasn&#039;t a gift event hough it had been there for years.  Sounds like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge definition of a gift that a lawyer would think up.  Even if it looks like a gift, and acts like a gift, it isn&#039;t a gift because I told the guy who gifted it to me that I didn&#039;t want it and he could come pick it up any time.  Maybe if there were not disclosure requirements I might just roll my eyes.
  On the other hand, I can see where what Stevens did was skirt the edges like a whole bunch of others and it&#039;s part of the culture, and the reason he was targeted was not because he was more egregious than others, but because it was a Cheney plot.  I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s true, but I found ever so plausible.
  I think that targeted prosecutions, even for bad behavior, are bad for the system.
  Maybe the second time around there will be a plea deal?  Hmmm. Would Stevens settle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ grewingk:<br />
  YOu make some interesting points.  however, it doesn&#8217;t explain his explanation of receiving a gift that he didn&#8217;t want and wasn&#8217;t a gift event hough it had been there for years.  Sounds like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge definition of a gift that a lawyer would think up.  Even if it looks like a gift, and acts like a gift, it isn&#8217;t a gift because I told the guy who gifted it to me that I didn&#8217;t want it and he could come pick it up any time.  Maybe if there were not disclosure requirements I might just roll my eyes.<br />
  On the other hand, I can see where what Stevens did was skirt the edges like a whole bunch of others and it&#8217;s part of the culture, and the reason he was targeted was not because he was more egregious than others, but because it was a Cheney plot.  I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s true, but I found ever so plausible.<br />
  I think that targeted prosecutions, even for bad behavior, are bad for the system.<br />
  Maybe the second time around there will be a plea deal?  Hmmm. Would Stevens settle?</p>
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		<title>By: austintx</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10443</link>
		<dc:creator>austintx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10443</guid>
		<description>grewingk - your story/theory works for me. look what Rove did to the Gov. of Ala. these people will do whatever they want to who they want.BTW - Cheney was drunk when he shot the guy in south Texas. The local sheriff was not allowed to see or interview Cheney until 8am the next day. Also - I think the Feds have a lot more material (pun intended) to work with in taking down Sarah/Todd on house-gate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grewingk &#8211; your story/theory works for me. look what Rove did to the Gov. of Ala. these people will do whatever they want to who they want.BTW &#8211; Cheney was drunk when he shot the guy in south Texas. The local sheriff was not allowed to see or interview Cheney until 8am the next day. Also &#8211; I think the Feds have a lot more material (pun intended) to work with in taking down Sarah/Todd on house-gate.</p>
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		<title>By: grewingk</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10440</link>
		<dc:creator>grewingk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10440</guid>
		<description>@Pat, Washington state(01:34:14) : I think Ted Stevens was telling the flat-footed truth when he said he paid every bill that was sent to him for remodeling his house in Girdwood. I also think that Bill Allen didn&#039;t send him all of the bills. Was it entrapment or was it a friend doing a favor for a friend?

It&#039;s a crappy house, IMO. Have you seen the photos of it? I can&#039;t imagine someone who served 40 years in the US Senate risking his seat and his reputation for that crappy little house. Stevens didn&#039;t spend much time there, because the Senate schedule had him stuck in DC so much of the time. He only spent less than a month every year at home, and much of that traveling around the state to talk to us, his constituents.

In my mind, it just doesn&#039;t add up. Maybe he&#039;s guilty as all get-out, I dunno. But somehow, it just doesn&#039;t feel right to me. I just don&#039;t think the old man failed to disclose $240,000 in crappy home improvements on his Senate Disclosure paperwork on purpose. Ted Stevens is not a stupid man. And his wife practices international law. Catherine Bittner-Stevens isn&#039;t stupid either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pat, Washington state(01:34:14) : I think Ted Stevens was telling the flat-footed truth when he said he paid every bill that was sent to him for remodeling his house in Girdwood. I also think that Bill Allen didn&#8217;t send him all of the bills. Was it entrapment or was it a friend doing a favor for a friend?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a crappy house, IMO. Have you seen the photos of it? I can&#8217;t imagine someone who served 40 years in the US Senate risking his seat and his reputation for that crappy little house. Stevens didn&#8217;t spend much time there, because the Senate schedule had him stuck in DC so much of the time. He only spent less than a month every year at home, and much of that traveling around the state to talk to us, his constituents.</p>
<p>In my mind, it just doesn&#8217;t add up. Maybe he&#8217;s guilty as all get-out, I dunno. But somehow, it just doesn&#8217;t feel right to me. I just don&#8217;t think the old man failed to disclose $240,000 in crappy home improvements on his Senate Disclosure paperwork on purpose. Ted Stevens is not a stupid man. And his wife practices international law. Catherine Bittner-Stevens isn&#8217;t stupid either.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat, Washington state</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10436</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat, Washington state</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10436</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;grewingk&lt;/strong&gt;, thanks for sharing your perspective on Stevens. I don&#039;t know more about him than what has been in the news lately. I&#039;m sure that he did a lot of good things for Alaska or he couldn&#039;t have remained in office so long.

But there is the matter of ethics. It &lt;em&gt;sounds&lt;/em&gt; like ethics violations, to me. And the problem that I have with Stevens is that he&#039;s been around politics long enough and is certainly old enough to know what is right and what is wrong. Claiming that he trusted the wrong person or that he was tricked just doesn&#039;t excuse him from responsibility, in my opinion.

We are all faced with choosing how we conduct our business and our personal lives every day. Do we tell the clerk in the store that he gave us too much change - or do we consider it a lucky break? What do we do with money we find on the ground in the parking lot - turn it in to security only if it&#039;s over a certain amount or put it in our own pocket? After all, $10 to a person who doesn&#039;t have a good job is a huge amount - but if we don&#039;t try to find the person who lost it, then how would we ever know. Do we set the record straight when we are complimented or given a raise or bonus even though it was someone else who did the work? Do we admit that we made a mistake even when no one knows? What about our tax returns - do we only take legitiment deductions or do we look for the loophole and congratulate ourselves that we&#039;ve outsmarted the government?

Each of us, every day, chooses how we conduct our lives. The choices we make are the indication of our character. I&#039;ve found that the older I get the more aware I am of the importance of living my life honestly and ethically. It&#039;s the reason I can sleep at night and the reason I don&#039;t feel guilty about things I&#039;ve done. I don&#039;t have regrets and I don&#039;t have to wonder when I might get caught in a lie because I haven&#039;t lied. If we choose to do the right thing, the ethical thing, then no one can put us in a position of having to prove that we didn&#039;t do anything wrong - it won&#039;t even be an issue.

Stevens had to have known that all that remodling was way beyond what was allowed. That&#039;s just common sense. And past service doesn&#039;t exempt anyone from being held accountable for current choices.

Pat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>grewingk</strong>, thanks for sharing your perspective on Stevens. I don&#8217;t know more about him than what has been in the news lately. I&#8217;m sure that he did a lot of good things for Alaska or he couldn&#8217;t have remained in office so long.</p>
<p>But there is the matter of ethics. It <em>sounds</em> like ethics violations, to me. And the problem that I have with Stevens is that he&#8217;s been around politics long enough and is certainly old enough to know what is right and what is wrong. Claiming that he trusted the wrong person or that he was tricked just doesn&#8217;t excuse him from responsibility, in my opinion.</p>
<p>We are all faced with choosing how we conduct our business and our personal lives every day. Do we tell the clerk in the store that he gave us too much change &#8211; or do we consider it a lucky break? What do we do with money we find on the ground in the parking lot &#8211; turn it in to security only if it&#8217;s over a certain amount or put it in our own pocket? After all, $10 to a person who doesn&#8217;t have a good job is a huge amount &#8211; but if we don&#8217;t try to find the person who lost it, then how would we ever know. Do we set the record straight when we are complimented or given a raise or bonus even though it was someone else who did the work? Do we admit that we made a mistake even when no one knows? What about our tax returns &#8211; do we only take legitiment deductions or do we look for the loophole and congratulate ourselves that we&#8217;ve outsmarted the government?</p>
<p>Each of us, every day, chooses how we conduct our lives. The choices we make are the indication of our character. I&#8217;ve found that the older I get the more aware I am of the importance of living my life honestly and ethically. It&#8217;s the reason I can sleep at night and the reason I don&#8217;t feel guilty about things I&#8217;ve done. I don&#8217;t have regrets and I don&#8217;t have to wonder when I might get caught in a lie because I haven&#8217;t lied. If we choose to do the right thing, the ethical thing, then no one can put us in a position of having to prove that we didn&#8217;t do anything wrong &#8211; it won&#8217;t even be an issue.</p>
<p>Stevens had to have known that all that remodling was way beyond what was allowed. That&#8217;s just common sense. And past service doesn&#8217;t exempt anyone from being held accountable for current choices.</p>
<p>Pat</p>
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		<title>By: grewingk</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2009/01/16/the-tangled-web-of-the-stevens-trial/#comment-10434</link>
		<dc:creator>grewingk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=1072#comment-10434</guid>
		<description>Good catch, Aussie Blue Sky. I don&#039;t read the Wall Street Journal, because those people just piss me off. 

While working people are losing their jobs and homes, the WSJ cries about how unfair it is that the bankers and Wall Street brokers will get their multi-million dollar bonuses cut. Cry me a river already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good catch, Aussie Blue Sky. I don&#8217;t read the Wall Street Journal, because those people just piss me off. </p>
<p>While working people are losing their jobs and homes, the WSJ cries about how unfair it is that the bankers and Wall Street brokers will get their multi-million dollar bonuses cut. Cry me a river already.</p>
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