Saturday Open Thread
No, the volcano hasn’t buried Mudflats alive. It’s worse. Computer issues. The fix should happen today (keep fingers crossed), but for right now, please enjoy this open thread to discuss the issues of the day, and THANK YOU to all of you who granted my wish. I heard the audio for this clip in college, and never even knew there was video! It makes it even better.
So, comPLETEly off topic from Alaska politics, but somehow strangely in keeping with the Alaska Department of Law’s 2008 Annual Report, please enjoy Peter Sellers doing Laurence Olivier doing Richard III doing A Hard Day’s Night!
Peter Sellers…classic.
It truly is a Hard Day’s Night.
oh, what a great memory….
Peter Sellers doing Laurence Olivier doing Richard III doing A Hard Day’s Night!
HOW have I never seen or heard of this marvelous thing?? As usual, Mudflats brings joy into my world in the most unexpected ways.
hope the computer is an easy fix…
Just wondering if there are any SuperBowl widows on here. Got any fun ideas of what to do while everyone else is glued to the tube?
And for all you SB fans how about a donation to the Village each time your team scores a point?
Peter Sellers’ rendition of ‘She loves you (yeah yeah yeah)’
channelling Dr. Strangelove (audio)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq6yNinI5zo
Now THAT’S an appropriate use of Shakespeare!
What a treasure!
Thanks for the look back!
Hope you get your computer problems fixed!
Today you can call me â??Fuming in PA.â??
I was out and, while flipping through the radio channels, landed on the Christian radio station. The program was something called â??Ask Bill,â?? and the question being asked caught my ear. In a nutshell:
Mother w/ preteen daughter finds out her husband (step-daddy) is viewing and has kiddie porn; specifically female preteen kiddie porn. Because mom is trying to be a good Christian, she doesnâ??t want a divorce, but wants â??Godlyâ?? advice.
Bills advice is this:
1) Donâ??t let step-daddy alone with preteen daughter.
2) Talk to your pastor.
3) Find a Christian counselor.
4) Read some tough love book by none other than Focus on the Families Dr. James Dobson.
Period.
Thatâ??s it.
This is what makes me so angry my head could explode. These are the same Focus on the Family lunatics who love Sarah Palin because she shares the same â??family valuesâ?? as they do. These people are out of their minds.
Any normal human being would start with Call the police. This guy has probably not only dawdled with your preteen daughter but other kids as well! Have him arrested; locked away! Kiss him goodbye! Take your daughter and run like hell! Never look back!
But in their bizarre world, God is probably just testing her faith. Or maybe heâ??s teaching her to be a godlier wife. Or maybe itâ??s the result of gays or abortion or Obama.
So, you just stay with ole kiddie porn with your wee one and trust that God will keep step-daddies prying fingers off her body. Because after all, itâ??s saving the marriage that counts the most in Godâ??s eyes ï??
BARF.
On a lighter note, meet the ULTIMATE Steelers fan here:
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/18609272/index.html
This is a good one. Sorry if it’s a double post.
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
This is totally OT — and wondering if it is just a joke since I haven’t seen it anywhere else but Huff. Post Someone ~~~~ please tell me this is a joke!!
“”Four days before he left office, Mr. Bush authorized Fielding to write letters to Harriet Miers and Karl Rove giving them “absolute immunity” from Congressional inquiry and prosecution. Preemptively. In perpetuity. Absolute and irrevocable.
The letters set the stage for what is likely to be a highly contentious legal and political battle over an unresolved issue: whether a former president can assert “executive privilege” — and therefore prevent his aides from testifying before Congress — even after his term has expired. “”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-latt/bush-punkd-us-again_b_162501.html
Enjay, the story was originally broken in Newsweek, I believe. Michael Isikoff’s article: http://www.newsweek.com/id/182240
JaneDoe (12:57:40) :
This is a good one. Sorry if it’s a double post.
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
SPAM in Christ’s name is still SPAM
@ JaneDoe – That was absolutely beautiful – Thanks for making me cry. LOL I think this should be played in the House and in the Senate maybe it would make some of our so called Senators and Congressmen wake up and realize they work for “We the people”. And that their job is not lining the pockets of big corporations or their own for that matter but to do what’s in the country’s best interest. Thank you so much for the link, I’m off to watch it again.
OK, as long as it’s a slow ‘flats day and we’re on Richard III, I must share some family lore…
My FIL is a bit of a nut, but also a movie buff, especially in his younger years. He and his buddies would get together regularly to watch films shown on a bedsheet/screen, drink and whatever. They would also swap films. So FIL has quite a few old films stored away. These old films are on film stock that can be, literally, explosive. So when my in-laws sold their house in 1996, MIL insisted that the films were not going with them as she had feared mayhem for the last 60-ish years, waiting for these things to blow up and burn down their house.
What to do with these films? Hmmm. Through a friend they ended up sending them to the American Film Institute. Well, it turns out that my FIL had, stashed in his storage room (“the woodshed”) all those years, the oldest surviving American full length feature film ever discovered! It was a really big deal in the film world–he even got on the cover of TIME mag! What a hoot!
The film itself, unless you are a truly dedicated student of film, is pretty ho-hum, but what a great story! The AFI treated my in-laws like royalty and it was surely one of the true highlights of their lives (FIL turned 90 this year!)
Anyway, just thought I’d share a little Richard III movie trivia.
Enjay in Eastern MT (13:08:41) :
This is totally OT — and wondering if it is just a joke since I haven’t seen it anywhere else but Huff. Post Someone ~~~~ please tell me this is a joke!!
“”Four days before he left office, Mr. Bush authorized Fielding to write letters to Harriet Miers and Karl Rove giving them “absolute immunity” from Congressional inquiry and prosecution. Preemptively. In perpetuity. Absolute and irrevocable.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@Enjay
No joke, it appeared on the Newsweek website:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/182240
And the House Judiciary Committee is likely to not look kindly on this turn of events based on their response to Rove’s blowing them off last year.
http://judiciary.house.gov/news/071008.html
Now, Rove is playing bluff poker by asking the Obama Administration to rule on whether the current Admin will support his claim of Executive Privilege, knowing that if they do not that it will weaken any later arguments for any such privilege by Obama later on.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/obama-white-house-looking_n_161396.html
Regardless of what Obama’s Admin rules, I expect this to just be a bluff and stall maneuver and Rove will refuse to appear. Now let’s see if Congress will spine up and issue a Bench Warrant and have Rove perp-walked onto The Floor.
Peaceful Granny– I’m not a widow of any kind, but I’m going to the nearby Korean Spa to soak and sweat the day away in the company of other women. Superbowl, schmooperbowl, who cares? Bunch of extremely overpaid testosterone-and-steriod-addled adolescents.
You may not have such a place in your town, but perhaps a substitute? YMCA facilities? Fancy hotel with a sauna? Sometimes the staff of those ubiquitous nail parlors do neck and shoulder and certainly foot massages.
Shadow’s Heart (13:15:47) :
@ JaneDoe – That was absolutely beautiful – Thanks for making me cry. LOL I think this should be played in the House and in the Senate maybe it would make some of our so called Senators and Congressmen wake up and realize they work for “We the people”. And that their job is not lining the pockets of big corporations or their own for that matter but to do what’s in the country’s best interest. Thank you so much for the link, I’m off to watch it again.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please remove the “My Bible is My Bill of Rights” line first, otherwise I have a serious problem with that idea.
schmooperbowl – that’s a funny one !! hey it’s a guy thing….what can we say ?? No Playboy party this year. Did see something about how this is SB 43 and there are exactly 43 “Gentlemans Clubs” in Tampa……….
hey now….don’t be dissing my superbowl. Go Steelers!!!
@Paula, that is hilarious, I thought my brother was the ultimate Steelers fan.
You mentioned the other day, that you signed up for SarahPAC, did you hear anything? I signed up, just to see, and I havent even received a confirmation letter. Also you mentioned something about ADN, I cant even sign onto a story at ADN. I register or re-sign in and nothing happens.
Did you all hear SP is supposed to be On SNL tonight? I know, that guests usually dont go on their without getting paid, I believe it is like $650 a night, when guests appear, that was like 10 years ago.
I havent been too impressed with SNL, because it isnt the same as it was back in the day.
Are there mudflats people in the area of alfalfas dinner that are supposed to bring signs that SP is neglecting her duties as Gov.
@Paula, that is hilarious, I thought my brother was the ultimate Steelers fan.
You mentioned the other day, that you signed up for SarahPAC, did you hear anything? I signed up, just to see, and I havent even received a confirmation letter. Also you mentioned something about ADN, I cant even sign onto a story at ADN. I register or re-sign in and nothing happens.
Did you all hear SP is supposed to be On SNL tonight? I know, that guests usually dont go on their without getting paid, I believe it is like $650 a night, when guests appear, that was like 10 years ago.
I havent been too impressed with SNL, because it isnt the same as it was back in the day.
Did anyone hear about the Alfalfa dinner and people carrying signs there against SP?
OK, after I got over the fact it was SAPM, and after I got past the overtly Christian references, I poked around the BornAgainAmerican website.
I know now that it is a non-partisan, supposedly non-religious attempt at unification of the American Spirit, but that one line still bothers me because it equates the Bill of Rights with Holy Scripture. And I believe others will be bothered too – but from a different perspective, since I believe more people may find it mocking of their religion rather than biased towards their religion, as I find it to be heavily biased towards Christianity.
I would still object however even if it interchanged Bible with Koran with Torah with whatever scripture of any other religion….the Bill of Rights is not meant to be Holy Scripture, it is…..a human creation, the Bill of Rights!
The point is that the Bill should suffice as is, without trying to raise it to status of divinity or equate it with a christo-centric concept of the word of God.
AND NOW I APOLOGIZE – Sorry if I’m being overly anal, but I gotta make that point – the Bill of Rights is NOT intended to replace religious scripture, but it IS intended to embrace all humanity in an affirmation of equal rights.
I think I was born ok the first time myself.
A funny coincidence with today’s Peter Sellers video. Go take a quick look at the current headline at Huffpost.
@ wired differently (13:27:15) :
If you want to sweat, you can do it at my house for free. We’re having temps of 115+ every day for a fortnight. If you need to dry off you can go outside, where the humidity is 6%.
We’re naked and sweating 24/7 and we never have to leave home.
And on a more serious note, this brought tears to my eyes. I sure miss Molly.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/betsy-moon/what-would-molly-think_b_162723.html
Religious references or no, Born Again American touched my heart. I was SO ashamed to be American these last horrid eight years. And I hold no dispute with those who consider themselves ‘born again Christians,’ so the allusions to the Bible AND the Bill of Rights (not the one over the other) in the very moving song does not bother me. In fact, it suits me just fine. I had just about given up on being an American, and now I do feel like I can be proud once more. And I would very much like to be able to stand, together with peoples of all faiths (note there were Muslims, Jews, Christians, and maybe even Hindus and others performing) to say, “This is my country — a country founded on principles that are expressed not only in our Constitution and Bill of Rights, but also in many religious traditions. This is my country, and I feel as if I am born again into it.”
But that’s just me. Thanks for the link, JaneDoe.
@BigStick – It says the Bible and the Bill of Rights – It does not say the Bible is my Bill of Rights. The words are there in black and white if you care to check. I would have a problem with that also too. I know the go, go God people have ya a little nuts these days but all people who believe in God are not like Sarah Palin. There is a big difference between takin’ the talk and walkin’ the walk, true Christians know the difference. If you truly watched the video you have noticed it was multi cultural with people from all walks and faiths not just Christians.
oops, I dont know how that post went up two times, I hit this in only once, and this screen froze, We have to go, lots of errands to run.
Does anyone know about or have opinions on clean coal technology?
I just read a great article on Andrew Halcro’s site! and yeehaw he’s askin some dam spicy questions about Palin’s latest deal with Healy. Oh my, serious questions for the legislature, and everyone also too, questions involving first dude Todd, Todd’s daddy, Repub Rep. Mike Kelly, and says Andree has brought to light through the Frank Bailey emails some connections in question.
There could be lots of splainin to do…….get your popcorn ready. BTW there are 2 more articles about the Healy scam on his site.
“Healy Clean Coal Plant: Ask some damn questions!”
http://www.andrewhalcro.com/the_healy_clean_coal_plant
PDX MB……..that’s a neat story about your FIL!
@Ennealogic (13:53:35) : …”This is my country, and I feel as if I am born again into it.” I so agree.
Thanks Ennealogic and Shadow’s Heart. I thought it was a touching video and most of us can relate to all or some part of it.
And to all dear Muddies and Big Stick too…this one’s for you:
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4332103/11633695
…and I never get tired listening to this one:
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4077215/11005985
Cheers and Beers
mt (13:42:44) :
@Paula, that is hilarious, I thought my brother was the ultimate Steelers fan.
You mentioned the other day, that you signed up for SarahPAC, did you hear anything? I signed up, just to see, and I havent even received a confirmation letter. Also you mentioned something about ADN, I cant even sign onto a story at ADN. I register or re-sign in and nothing happens.
_____________________
I didn’t sign up for SarahPAC. I just send her nasty emails.
BigSlick (13:44:50) :
OK, after I got over the fact it was SAPM, and after I got past the overtly Christian references, I poked around the BornAgainAmerican website.
BornAgainAmerican non-partisan, supposedly non-religious attempt at unification of the American Spirit….
______________________
I think not. All you have to do is look at their ads to see that. They’re born again right wingers wrapped in a “Patriotic American” bedsheet.
Ten bucks says they agree torture is the bomb.
But I am not Christian, so to me their site screams Red flag! Abort! Red flag! Abort!
Before you attack my red flag comment, yes, I know there are actually Christians who are not insane. So, my red flag alert was not intended for every person of faith across the globe.
But their anti gay ads gave me a red flag & I was turned off.
I always figure, if Jesus was here, he’d be either in a gay ar or a village. Not hanging & banging with Alphalfa andf spot.
There is no such thing as clean coal. There is very dirty coal and less dirty coal. The less dirty stuff has less sulfur in it. Clean coal technology is still experimental, which is why we are talking about exporting the technology to dirty China instead of using it ourselves. Anybody who says they have clean coal is merely saying they have low sulfur coal, which is still dirty. Aside from the monumental problems associated with coal mining (especially mountaintop removal mining), the refining process and coal burning result in sulfuric acid (acid rain).
“The 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, planned to meet in Washington this weekend with Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and other senators to press for her state’s share of the package.”
Huh? WTF? I’m betting she’s trying to woo these old white guys and tell them “Thanks, but no thanks”, in spite of AK being on the brink – all this for the 2012 run as a fiscal conservative.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_go_co/stimulus_gop_governors_3
I don’t have a problem with “real” christians. Problem is, I hardly ever see that kind. Real christians don’t judge, push their agendas on others, blow up abortion clinics, infiltrate school boards, etc. They are tolerant and charitable. They give freely of their time and goods to widows and orphans and the helpless and homeless. They teach their children to be charitable, loving human beings always ready to reach out to others. They do community service. They view the world with a tolerant loving eye. They pray in private.
@PaulaCochran
I’ve never seen a commercial for them. I can’t see Norman Lear or Keith Caradine as rah rah Christians but I could be wrong. Been wrong before will be again. I’m not anti anything well so I won’t support that well maybe Sarah Palin as President. LOL I’ll have to investigate further.
@womanwithsardinecan – I agree – I believe your religion is what you live, it’s not found in a building or a book.
New thread
Sorry I must have taken my cue from sister Sarah. I meant to say I won’t support them in any way if they are prejudice against gays or anyone for that matter. That I’m not anti anything except maybe Sarah Palin as President. Geesh Speak much. LOL
LOL guess there’s no going OT on this thread since there isn’t really a topic.
Update here….
For those of you who didn’t catch the previous posts…
We, NUNAM IQUA, have received and distributed over 1000 (one THOUSAND) pounds of food here. That sure sounds like a lot but when you divide it up between 30 families it’s like 2-3 grocery bags. When you do the math it’s only 33 lbs per family. But more is coming and atleast I know families/children aren’t going hungry.
If you want more information or have questions please feel free to email me at nunamiquayouth@yahoo.com
Quyana Cakneq,
Ann Strongheart
Nunam Iqua Food Drive
c/o Ann Strongheart
P.O. Box 7
Nunam Iqua, AK 99666
womanwithsardinecan (14:39:28) :
I’ll tell you what kind of coal there is; cheap coal, mined a few miles down the road. Two winters ago we went from oil to coal/wood -before the $170 a barrel and we spent $3500. (2006-2007 winter) on oil.
With coal we spend around $500. a winter. I figure the polution we’re adding is saved by not having it hauled from a bazillion miles away. I am also supporting my local economy (small business we buy coal from).
I know Alaska is colder, but here is PA our temps can range from -20 to 103 degrees. So, during the -20 to 55 degree weather we do coal. During the summer we used to survive the heat, now I am in “heat flah” mode, the AC runs all summer or I feel like I will burst into flames.
Everything, really, is dirty.
I think a lot of folks will be getting rid of there big houses (we call them McMansions). That will help. Who needs 10,000 square feet for 2 or 3 people anyway?
I get it Anne, I mailed a 20 plus pound box and was like, egads, that’s not even a weeks worth of food. When your doing food by weight you sure get a reality smack on meals.
PS We don’t live on brown rice, granola and soy beans -otherwise maybe we’d be able to live on 6 pounds a week. Haha!
Shadow’s Heart (15:01:33) :
@PaulaCochran
I’ve never seen a commercial for them.
___________
It was a flashing antigay ad when I visited their site. Was the first thing I saw and I was turned off before I even peeked around.
UT oh Paula,
Do I feel a “Don’t go GRANOLA on me” comment coming???
ROFLMAO
Hey Paula, did you ever answer my question about having to watch out for the banana tree, pineapple bush and ut oh what was it?? LOL I can’t even remember
I asked you if I needed to watch out for them so I could send them back after you commented on not being able to grow here!! LOL
Ann
On behalf of… well, myself… Paula, thanks for the outrage. More people need to be outraged. What roast my chestnuts is “Christians” who judge. Hello???? What ever happened to WWJD???
nabrum (14:39:50) :
“The 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, planned to meet in Washington this weekend with Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and other senators to press for her state’s share of the package.”
Huh? WTF? I’m betting she’s trying to woo these old white guys and tell them “Thanks, but no thanks”, in spite of AK being on the brink – all this for the 2012 run as a fiscal conservative.
_________________
As I have read before, the more conservative southern states are positioning her to lead. The more moderate GOP is ignoring her and hoping she will disappear. They know there is no way they can ever come back leaning that far right. And let’s face it, Palin has her followers, but there’s no majority going to ever back that wackjob.
Struggling_in_Nunam_Iqua (15:16:23) :
UT oh Paula,
Do I feel a “Don’t go GRANOLA on me” comment coming???
ROFLMAO
Hey Paula, did you ever answer my question about having to watch out for the banana tree, pineapple bush and ut oh what was it?? LOL I can’t even remember
I asked you if I needed to watch out for them so I could send them back after you commented on not being able to grow here!! LOL
Ann
______________
Nope I didn’t. But now that you mention it… What you need to do is keep the plants, and cover every village with a green. The whole village can live there and eat bananas, pineapple and oranges all winter long.
When global warming finally melts the permafrost you can grow rice (and maybe granola, too?).
With all that tropical heat you can then start a vacation retreat, generating massive income.
Bingo! All of your problems have been solved!
(I’m running for Gov. of Alaska in 2010… Hahaha!)
I’m a geologist and an environmentalist. I damn well know what coal does to the environment. It is at least 50% carbon, which adds to the CO2 in environment when burned. Depending on the level of sulfur in it, it acidifies the air and destroys living things (stuff doesn’t live in acid environment). I don’t want to argue about this because I think those of us here have far more commonalities than differences. But don’t fool yourself that “cheap” equals okay. It doesn’t. Nuff said by me. Let’s move on to commonalities, like getting the Queen removed from public life.
Ripley in CT (15:22:29) :
On behalf of… well, myself… Paula, thanks for the outrage. More people need to be outraged. What roast my chestnuts is “Christians” who judge. Hello???? What ever happened to WWJD???
_________________________
And the right wing said, “Jesus who?”
womanwithsardinecan (15:33:26) :
I’m a geologist and an environmentalist. I damn well know what coal does to the environment.
_______________
I wasn’t arguing, inhale. I agree. But, well, I can’t afford $3500. a year for heat. We live in a very wooded area -lots of dead wood to chop. Burn wood fall/spring, coal in the winter because it’s our only source of heat. In this economy, money talks. Gotta eat.
There is no such thing as CLEAN coal. That nasty sludge lake at the TVA was the off product of so-called clean coal. It’s sort of like saying nuclear power is clean. There is still the nasty by-product that lives a billion years.
What is claen fuel (4 heat)? I mean really -I’m not being an ass. Is there truely clean green heat? (Buffalo flops, I presume).
Unless we all move to Hawaii, we need some sort of heat.
Natural gas? I fear that stuff with my life. When I was 5 and lived in the city, a neighbors house blew up. I mean the whole house. Lady was blow to pieces, bricks for blocks. Can’t do it.
Anyway… don’t all fuel sources leave a carbon footprint in one way or another? Even wood. Even cow farts. What is truely natural and perfectly clean?
womanwithsardinecan (15:33:26) :
I’m a geologist and an environmentalist.
________________
You wanna meet someone/read about someone who’s green? I mean live in a manmade hut GREEN!!! You would probably enjoy Joannas website. I knew her when she was married with a dog and lived in a house. It’s be great keeping in touch with her as she seeks out the ultimate grren life. Shes’ awesome. The bomb. Check her out.
http://joannasecotravels.wordpress.com/
There are some cool alternative ways to heat your house, like radiant floor heating from solar. But of course that involves completely redoing our houses. I live in rental housing. I can’t rip up the floors and replace our gas heating system. We all leave a carbon footprint unless we are diehard extreme greenies, which is very hard in our industrial society. I’m just bothered by all the propaganda about “clean coal.” I get a kick out of the latest anti-clean-coal commercials being run by reality.com. They make me giggle.
I just do the best I can with what I’ve got to work with, which mostly involves minimizing my carbon footprint by walking instead of driving, keeping the thermostat no higher than 67, etc. We are a bit stuck in this fossil fuel-driven society.
@Paula Cochran
Well I’ve been there at least six times and there’s no flashing anythings, could be these eyes are just plum worn out. Could be I guess from spending so much time here!!!! LOL So I’ll just have to take your word for it. But thanks for the warning!!!!!
Please check out Joannas Blog, get past the book thing -whatever – to the real meat. It’s pretty cool
We had a solar estimate. To go 100% solar, w/ the sun we have in PA, conversion $130K. Yeah, that’s gonna happen.
ahhh, thank you AKM!!!
I have no more to say…
For a little nonpolitical humor try http://cakewrecks.blogspot.com/
Paula Cochran (15:33:22)
______________
Nope I didnâ??t. But now that you mention itâ?¦ What you need to do is keep the plants, and cover every village with a green. The whole village can live there and eat bananas, pineapple and oranges all winter long.
When global warming finally melts the permafrost you can grow rice (and maybe granola, too?).
With all that tropical heat you can then start a vacation retreat, generating massive income.
Bingo! All of your problems have been solved!
(Iâ??m running for Gov. of Alaska in 2010â?¦ Hahaha!)
________________________________________________
OK THERE YA GO>>>>> Paula just announced she’s running for Governor!!!
ROFLMAO,
Ann
OT: Well yeah, I guess she did leave them at home. Morgan of the blog palinpic4truth is going offline…as of tonight because of threats to her!
I hope she takes all evidence of threats right to the FBI as their was a certain computer in Wasilla that came over 800 times in her first week in a half. She was working on some really incredible stuff and I hope she reconsiders.
I hope any blogger who get anons threats from Wasilla forward to FBI not police.
And we are still wondering “Where’s Trip”?
I know she was referring people here to the “flats as she calls them. Morgan if you are here I hope you continue this work, as it proves you were getting close to the truth. And IT will come out.
dangit, my post I was typing just disappeared on me………oh well.
AK keep an eye on the decisions your Gov is makin……..
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/us/07sludge.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3