Comments on: The Real Lesson of the Exxon Valdez is the Future of Bristol Bay. http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/ Tiptoeing Through the Muck of Alaskan Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:08:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: eddie fireplace palin http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-31199 eddie fireplace palin Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:01:01 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-31199 Another great post by AKM, thanks very much. I would like to offer a few comments because just today (3-25) I received a check for my participation in the class-action lawsuit against Exxon for the Exxon Valdez oil spill. The date on the check is March 23, 2009 - almost 20 years to the day after the ship hit Bligh Reef. The courts determined that the claimants in my class were to divide up a total of 98 million in damages. So what was my individual share, after two decades of waiting? About 850 bucks. Whoopee. Another great post by AKM, thanks very much. I would like to offer a few comments because just today (3-25) I received a check for my participation in the class-action lawsuit against Exxon for the Exxon Valdez oil spill. The date on the check is March 23, 2009 – almost 20 years to the day after the ship hit Bligh Reef. The courts determined that the claimants in my class were to divide up a total of 98 million in damages. So what was my individual share, after two decades of waiting? About 850 bucks.

Whoopee.

]]> By: Alaska Pi http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-31177 Alaska Pi Thu, 26 Mar 2009 04:10:46 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-31177 AKM- Just tip toeing in , after everyone has left, so no one will see me cry. This is a beautiful post. Thank you. Rep Edgmon wrote a song about fishing forever or mining for a season. I heard him play it at a concert here in Juneau. Afterwards I walked south of Sandy beach and the Treadwell mine cave-in site... to the place where nothing grows. I can't remember which mine was once there but it is a place where nothing grows- not even now-100 yrs later. We are funny critters- we humans. Our short lives are our infinity. We always assume we will have time to tidy things up before they get really bad- The way we do business, the way we treat each other, the way we use the bounty around us...the way we take supplies from the earth. That place where nothing grows is where I go to stay clear, if only for a short while, that we fall short far too often. Far too often , we let things get really bad... too bad to fix. <strong><em>I'm still here. I agree, and thanks. AKM AKM-
Just tip toeing in , after everyone has left, so no one will see me cry.
This is a beautiful post. Thank you.
Rep Edgmon wrote a song about fishing forever or mining for a season. I heard him play it at a concert here in Juneau.
Afterwards I walked south of Sandy beach and the Treadwell mine cave-in site…
to the place where nothing grows. I can’t remember which mine was once there but it is a place where nothing grows- not even now-100 yrs later.

We are funny critters- we humans. Our short lives are our infinity.

We always assume we will have time to tidy things up before they get really bad-
The way we do business, the way we treat each other, the way we use the bounty around us…the way we take supplies from the earth.

That place where nothing grows is where I go to stay clear, if only for a short while, that we fall short far too often.
Far too often , we let things get really bad… too bad to fix.

I’m still here. I agree, and thanks. AKM

]]> By: Maria from Landover Hills, MD http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30971 Maria from Landover Hills, MD Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:17:21 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30971 I was living in Seward when the oil spill happened. I still remember the silence and the heaviness of the contaminated tide, sluggishly lapping upon the shore there. Both of those proposed developments should be stopped - period. I was living in Seward when the oil spill happened. I still remember the silence and the heaviness of the contaminated tide, sluggishly lapping upon the shore there. Both of those proposed developments should be stopped – period.

]]> By: RStorch http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30954 RStorch Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:55:46 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30954 This has been an interesting discussion. I was in Cordova this past June the day the Supremes issued their opinion. It was a travesty. We can not let the same thing than happend to Prince William Sound happen to Brisol Bay. The old saying: "Fool me once...fool me twice..." seems to apply here. As pointed out above, the technology may exist to mine safely, but the political will doesn't. Until we devlope the politcal will, we have to stop the mine. Keep up the fight to save Brisol Bay! This has been an interesting discussion. I was in Cordova this past June the day the Supremes issued their opinion. It was a travesty. We can not let the same thing than happend to Prince William Sound happen to Brisol Bay. The old saying: “Fool me once…fool me twice…” seems to apply here.

As pointed out above, the technology may exist to mine safely, but the political will doesn’t. Until we devlope the politcal will, we have to stop the mine. Keep up the fight to save Brisol Bay!

]]> By: Gotta Jump IN http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30944 Gotta Jump IN Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:28:25 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30944 Say No.... Gotta Jump IN wrote: The economies of BB are not making it on fishing alone as the state has seen fit to send 90% of the value added manufacturing out of the state. ………………………………….. Then I’d say this is 90% outsourcing is something that “should” change to help the economy of the area rather than turn to mining to improve the economy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Good Luck - you have businesses worth billions who are not going to give it up without a fight and a state that does not even MENTION the idea of having the industry based in the state. Thus you think fishermen can make it happen??? NOW that makes me laugh! Nice idea but not reality based!! Say No….
Gotta Jump IN wrote: The economies of BB are not making it on fishing alone as the state has seen fit to send 90% of the value added manufacturing out of the state.
…………………………………..

Then I’d say this is 90% outsourcing is something that “should” change to help the economy of the area rather than turn to mining to improve the economy.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Good Luck – you have businesses worth billions who are not going to give it up without a fight and a state that does not even MENTION the idea of having the industry based in the state.
Thus you think fishermen can make it happen??? NOW that makes me laugh!
Nice idea but not reality based!!

]]> By: Say NO to Palin in Politics http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30898 Say NO to Palin in Politics Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:29:11 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30898 I appologize for flying off the handle and accusing geologist Krubo of being a plant, I'm sorry. I put down the wine and went to bed, lol. I totally disagree going ahead with any new mining or additional oil exploration anywhere at this point. I don't care the perceived need for it, we can use and re-use what we have right now, live more responsibly and slow down. You can't eat or breath money, steel, gold, copper, oil or tailings. We have to use renewable resources. We have been sloppy and careless long enough, we see the results and damage. Can we please learn from our mistakes? The ballet measure 4 would not have passed if Palin hadn't been underhanded and "used" to sway the vote to no. This was a last minute tactic to "steal" the vote, she should have been busted for that. The Valdez spill would not have happened if very real concerns had been taken seriously in the first place and if politicians had not convinced and lied to people. If greed had been denied. ......................................................... Gotta Jump IN wrote: The economies of BB are not making it on fishing alone as the state has seen fit to send 90% of the value added manufacturing out of the state. ......................................... Then I'd say this is 90% outsourcing is something that "should" change to help the economy of the area rather than turn to mining to improve the economy. ..................................... Ted Steven's should have been yanked from office the minute this spill happened. Selling B*llsh*t to the public should be a crime. "United States Senator Ted Stevens was quoted as saying, ‘Using the latest technologies, not one drop would ever touch the waters of Prince William Sound." I appologize for flying off the handle and accusing geologist Krubo of being a plant, I’m sorry. I put down the wine and went to bed, lol.

I totally disagree going ahead with any new mining or additional oil exploration anywhere at this point. I don’t care the perceived need for it, we can use and re-use what we have right now, live more responsibly and slow down. You can’t eat or breath money, steel, gold, copper, oil or tailings. We have to use renewable resources. We have been sloppy and careless long enough, we see the results and damage. Can we please learn from our mistakes?

The ballet measure 4 would not have passed if Palin hadn’t been underhanded and “used” to sway the vote to no. This was a last minute tactic to “steal” the vote, she should have been busted for that.

The Valdez spill would not have happened if very real concerns had been taken seriously in the first place and if politicians had not convinced and lied to people. If greed had been denied.

…………………………………………………

Gotta Jump IN wrote: The economies of BB are not making it on fishing alone as the state has seen fit to send 90% of the value added manufacturing out of the state.
…………………………………..

Then I’d say this is 90% outsourcing is something that “should” change to help the economy of the area rather than turn to mining to improve the economy.
……………………………….

Ted Steven’s should have been yanked from office the minute this spill happened. Selling B*llsh*t to the public should be a crime.

“United States Senator Ted Stevens was quoted as saying, ‘Using the latest technologies, not one drop would ever touch the waters of Prince William Sound.”

]]> By: womanwithsardinecan http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30887 womanwithsardinecan Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:45:12 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30887 Krubozumo Nyankoye, Thank you for your words. I also believe that we are stuck with mining in this high population industrial society, but we MUST do it responsibly, including walking away from sites that are just too risky to the environment. Summitville is called the mine that never should have happened. I want Pebble to be the mine that didn't happen because we got it right. We need to be recycling our metals, now and forever, and support technology that reduces our need for metals. And the next dumbass miner who complains about those meanies making them clean up their mess is going to get kicked in the bollocks by me. I'm really tired of that whiny irresponsible crap. Krubozumo Nyankoye,

Thank you for your words. I also believe that we are stuck with mining in this high population industrial society, but we MUST do it responsibly, including walking away from sites that are just too risky to the environment.
Summitville is called the mine that never should have happened. I want Pebble to be the mine that didn’t happen because we got it right.
We need to be recycling our metals, now and forever, and support technology that reduces our need for metals.
And the next dumbass miner who complains about those meanies making them clean up their mess is going to get kicked in the bollocks by me. I’m really tired of that whiny irresponsible crap.

]]> By: ericmiami http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30850 ericmiami Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:16:57 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30850 This is a fine, heartfelt piece of writing. This is a fine, heartfelt piece of writing.

]]> By: Gotta Jump IN http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30788 Gotta Jump IN Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:30:35 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30788 Before you decide for Bristol Bay residents please consider; Most of the resource in BB is for natural gas drilling, not oil. The transfer can happen on land. The economies of BB are not making it on fishing alone as the state has seen fit to send 90% of the value added manufacturing out of the state. Most residents are for moving forward to explore how to do this safely. Drilling has been happening for years off the coast of CA and the deep south, areas rich in sea life. Learn from them. When it comes to Pebble Mine. Help BB by making sure the industry and all the 'conclusions' they base their plans on are solid. Make them use the best technology around to develop it. An example - there is a fault line that runs near the mine, but it is no one knows EXACTLY where it is. If they are going to say a structure is safe based on where that fault is - then make them PROVE it before we OK it. Make them show the SCIENCE behind the decisions, and understand it!! Get involved now and make sure the regulations are followed and are open to the public. Question each and every plan and move and IF they can show it can be done well, give them a chance. Anchorage and the rest of the US does not want to support the villages through state and federal "give aways", then let us develop the resources if it can be done safely. Before you decide for Bristol Bay residents please consider;
Most of the resource in BB is for natural gas drilling, not oil.
The transfer can happen on land.
The economies of BB are not making it on fishing alone as the state has seen fit to send 90% of the value added manufacturing out of the state.
Most residents are for moving forward to explore how to do this safely.
Drilling has been happening for years off the coast of CA and the deep south, areas rich in sea life. Learn from them.
When it comes to Pebble Mine. Help BB by making sure the industry and all the ‘conclusions’ they base their plans on are solid. Make them use the best technology around to develop it.
An example – there is a fault line that runs near the mine, but it is no one knows EXACTLY where it is.
If they are going to say a structure is safe based on where that fault is – then make them PROVE it before we OK it.
Make them show the SCIENCE behind the decisions, and understand it!!
Get involved now and make sure the regulations are followed and are open to the public.
Question each and every plan and move and IF they can show it can be done well, give them a chance.
Anchorage and the rest of the US does not want to support the villages through state and federal “give aways”, then let us develop the resources if it can be done safely.

]]> By: Team Alaska http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/24/the-real-lesson-of-the-exxon-valdez-is-the-future-of-bristol-bay/#comment-30780 Team Alaska Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:13:19 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=2452#comment-30780 Krubozumo Nyankoye (18:46:06) : I did find you point of view very well spoken. I wish that I had your fluid way with words and ability to express such a powerful yet soft message. Plant or not, I believe it was a moderate point of view from a deep place. Thank you for sharing and expressing yourself. Personally, I think our oceans and sea life in general are already fighting a losing battle. Developing offshore oil rigs and open pit mining in the head waters of Bristol Bay , or anywhere else on this planet, is not what I believe to be prudent development with the present state of the planet. Personally, I thing the best situation we can attain as a planet is to create a steady state of well-being for all. This race to extract natural resources of all kinds, at ever faster and more profitable rates is killing the planet. The capitalistic goal of bigger and bigger economic growth every year after year is a myth. When is enough enough? I hope we will use are creative intelligence, and unlimited inventiveness to recycle, reuse, renew, repurpose, redirect, redistribute, reclaim, rebuild, restore, re-grow, recover, rediscover, and relearn the living systems of planet earth. Work with the most powerful forces of the planet. The sun, wind, and moving water. Krubozumo Nyankoye (18:46:06) :

I did find you point of view very well spoken. I wish that I had your fluid way with words and ability to express such a powerful yet soft message. Plant or not, I believe it was a moderate point of view from a deep place. Thank you for sharing and expressing yourself.

Personally, I think our oceans and sea life in general are already fighting a losing battle. Developing offshore oil rigs and open pit mining in the head waters of Bristol Bay , or anywhere else on this planet, is not what I believe to be prudent development with the present state of the planet.

Personally, I thing the best situation we can attain as a planet is to create a steady state of well-being for all. This race to extract natural resources of all kinds, at ever faster and more profitable rates is killing the planet.

The capitalistic goal of bigger and bigger economic growth every year after year is a myth. When is enough enough?

I hope we will use are creative intelligence, and unlimited inventiveness to recycle, reuse, renew, repurpose, redirect, redistribute, reclaim, rebuild, restore, re-grow, recover, rediscover, and relearn the living systems of planet earth.

Work with the most powerful forces of the planet. The sun, wind, and moving water.

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