Comments on: Pebble Mine, Dirty Gold, and the Corporate War on Alaska’s Salmon. http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/ Tiptoeing Through the Muck of Alaskan Politics Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:47:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: The Mudflats » Pebble Mine, Dirty Gold, and the Corporate War on … | H2O Report http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-114404 The Mudflats » Pebble Mine, Dirty Gold, and the Corporate War on … | H2O Report Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:11:01 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-114404 [...] the original here:  The Mudflats » Pebble Mine, Dirty Gold, and the Corporate War on … alaska, fish, mine, palin, politics, politics-says, shannyn-moore, [...] [...] the original here:  The Mudflats » Pebble Mine, Dirty Gold, and the Corporate War on … alaska, fish, mine, palin, politics, politics-says, shannyn-moore, [...]

]]> By: Alaska Pi http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-114109 Alaska Pi Sat, 01 Aug 2009 22:37:16 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-114109 @83 CG- I fail to understand what you are so irritated at- though reflecting on my original comment I see a mid-stream of thought sloppiness on my part. So, to be direct- 1- IN NO WAY OR FORM DO I SUPPORT THE PEBBLE MINE PROJECT. 2- That area is the hereditary home of my mother's people . I care about what happens there even though I live in SE AK. 3- REGARDLESS of what the facts about what the mine are, people there are hurting economoically and are being lured by promises of jobs- whether in the mine itself or in support services. It does NOT matter, at this point, whether the jobs exist- or might. 4- They are also under a constant barrage of negative rumor/flatout lie rumor mongering about how 'environmentalists just want to lock up everything so they can kayak and enjoy the view" 5-It is imperative that people there are supported in endeavours to make a living OTHER than in mining . Processor capability during the summer is flat and folks are left with the foregone fish problem or being on-limit at the peak of fish runs far too often. Friends in the area say it has to do with inadequate tender capabilty at times, fewer seasonal processing sites open due to high cost of running them for a few weeks a year, and so on. Folks have a few short weeks to make their entire year's earnings in the smaller villages... We cannot just talk about saving Bristol Bay for the fish, we have to support the fish industry as well . ( I in no way mean the large corp fish industry either... ) 5- I am very excited about this suit and HOPE it is the beginning of a new way of looking at resources in relation to each other here in Alaska. I worry that we, as a state, are not yet ready to really face what we lose if Pebble happens even though some neighbors obviously have in filing this suit. 6- I want to see us figure out how to keep way more of the $$ flowing into ALL of rural Alaska IN rural Alaska. This snippet from the report found at the First Alaskans Institute points to the sieve that is rural AK's money situation. Whether dirty-gold Pebble joins the leach-resources-and-money lineup in rural AK ( I sure hope not ! ) or not , the fact remains that people who are trying to make a living out there ARE buying the bs from mining and/or factory fishing giants because WE have not supported them as neighbors who should have transportation interties, basic infrastructure, PRIORITY for alternative energy projects and so many other things... http://www.firstalaskans.org/documents_fai/Remoteruralfinal2.pdf "Money Doesn’t Stick Figure 16 helps explain why the remote economy doesn’t produce enough jobs for residents. It estimates cash either flowing into or generated in the region in 2006—and it shows that most cash generated in remote areas never influences the local economy at all. And of the cash that does flow into the economy, a big share doesn’t stick around. The flows are approximations, based on limited data.• Nearly $18.5 billion was either generated in or flowed into remote areas in 2006, but only $2.35 billion entered the local economy. The rest went directly to other areas for producer profits; purchases of labor, supplies, and services; and federal and state taxes and royalties.• Of the $2.35 billion that did go into the local economy in 2006, $1 billion quickly leaked out again, because: (1) the many non-residents working in remote areas take their paychecks home when they leave, and (2) resident households and businesses can’t or won’t buy many things locally—and therefore spend money outside the region.' @83 CG-
I fail to understand what you are so irritated at- though reflecting on my original comment I see a mid-stream of thought sloppiness on my part.
So, to be direct-
1- IN NO WAY OR FORM DO I SUPPORT THE PEBBLE MINE PROJECT.
2- That area is the hereditary home of my mother’s people . I care about what happens there even though I live in SE AK.
3- REGARDLESS of what the facts about what the mine are, people there are hurting economoically and are being lured by promises of jobs- whether in the mine itself or in support services. It does NOT matter, at this point, whether the jobs exist- or might.
4- They are also under a constant barrage of negative rumor/flatout lie rumor mongering about how ‘environmentalists just want to lock up everything so they can kayak and enjoy the view”
5-It is imperative that people there are supported in endeavours to make a living OTHER than in mining .
Processor capability during the summer is flat and folks are left with the foregone fish problem or being on-limit at the peak of fish runs far too often. Friends in the area say it has to do with inadequate tender capabilty at times, fewer seasonal processing sites open due to high cost of running them for a few weeks a year, and so on.
Folks have a few short weeks to make their entire year’s earnings in the smaller villages…
We cannot just talk about saving Bristol Bay for the fish, we have to support the fish industry as well . ( I in no way mean the large corp fish industry either… )
5- I am very excited about this suit and HOPE it is the beginning of a new way of looking at resources in relation to each other here in Alaska.
I worry that we, as a state, are not yet ready to really face what we lose if Pebble happens even though some neighbors obviously have in filing this suit.
6- I want to see us figure out how to keep way more of the $$ flowing into ALL of rural Alaska IN rural Alaska.
This snippet from the report found at the First Alaskans Institute points to the sieve that is rural AK’s money situation.
Whether dirty-gold Pebble joins the leach-resources-and-money lineup in rural AK ( I sure hope not ! ) or not , the fact remains that people who are trying to make a living out there ARE buying the bs from mining and/or factory fishing giants because WE have not supported them as neighbors who should have transportation interties, basic infrastructure, PRIORITY for alternative energy projects and so many other things…

http://www.firstalaskans.org/documents_fai/Remoteruralfinal2.pdf
“Money Doesn’t Stick
Figure 16 helps explain why the remote economy doesn’t produce enough jobs for residents. It estimates cash either flowing into or generated in the region in 2006—and it shows that most cash generated in remote areas never influences the local economy at all. And of the cash that does flow into the economy, a big share doesn’t stick around. The flows are approximations, based on limited data.• Nearly $18.5 billion was either generated in or flowed into remote areas in 2006, but only $2.35 billion entered the local economy. The rest went directly to other areas for producer profits; purchases of labor, supplies, and services; and federal and state taxes and royalties.• Of the $2.35 billion that did go into the local economy in 2006, $1 billion quickly leaked out again, because: (1) the many non-residents working in remote areas take their paychecks home when they leave, and (2) resident households and businesses can’t or won’t buy many things locally—and therefore spend money outside the region.’

]]> By: CG http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-113910 CG Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:44:55 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-113910 "Of course locals end up with the piddly jobs in great numbers… wasn’t disputing that" Yeah. You were. Here's what you said: <i>"only menial jobs being available for locals… that is not really true"</i> Let's recap and see if we can see the point - WHY do we want to develop the largest open-pit copper mine in North America (maybe in the world) in Bristol Bay, the world's largest salmon-spawning watershed? ~ Because it's an economic opportunity for a region dealing with financial hardship, a flat economy, reduced cash value to commercial fishermen for their fish, and the high costs of gasoline and heating fuel. ~ Because it's financially lucrative for the State of Alaska. HOW is it an economic opportunity? ~ It'll create jobs for locals. ~ What's in it for the state: we don't know. There has been no factual case offered to Alaska citizens or the regions residents on how it benefits the State. Taxes? Royalties? Don't know. How much? When? Don't know. Somebody, anybody, tell us. The JOBS - well, gosh. Those Bristol Bay villagers need to position themselves to take advantage of that opportunity. They need to think ahead. Move to an urban area (Anchorage, southeast Alaska, Kenai, Fairbanks, Colorado, etc.) to get some training, skills and geology and engineering degrees. If they can't get a job at Pebble, they can still get a job somewhere else. JOBS? Director of Site Operations. No, sorry, that's taken. It's Gernot Wober, professional geologist, Manager of Technical Operations for Northern Dynasty Minerals Ltd., previous Vice President of Exploration for Great Basin Gold Ltd., managed exploration projects from British Columbia to South Africa. Before that it was filled by Lena BrommelandManger Lands/Technical Services at Hunter Dickinson,Vancouver, Canada. Public Affairs. Nope, sorry. We're not recruiting, but we'll keep your application on file. We brought Mike Heatwole in from eight years as Director of Corporate Communications for Alyeska Pipeline Service Company. Before that he was a legislative aide at the federal and state levels, managed electoral campaigns, provided corporate communication consulting services to Alaska companies. He's a board member of the Alaska State Chamber of Commerce and the Alaska Mineral and Energy Resource Education Fund. Other senior management postions, you ask? Those positions are filled. Mid-level administration? Well, no. There's a huge pool of credentialed career industry professionals to draw from, <i>none of whom are "local"</i>. And if you did get hired by some miracle, you'd have to move to Anchorage, wouldn't you. You're not going to be working out of corporate offices in Bristol Bay, are you? From Pebble's own presentation materials, 1003 employees in 2007: Alaskan 544 Local 119 US 243 Canada 83 "Other" 14 34% of employees are not Alaskan. 88% are not local. 12% are local. Here's what's even funnier - I could not find even ONE open job solicitation on-line, for Pebble Mine employment. NOT ONE. “Of course locals end up with the piddly jobs in great numbers… wasn’t disputing that”
Yeah. You were. Here’s what you said: “only menial jobs being available for locals… that is not really true”

Let’s recap and see if we can see the point –

WHY do we want to develop the largest open-pit copper mine in North America (maybe in the world) in Bristol Bay, the world’s largest salmon-spawning watershed?
~ Because it’s an economic opportunity for a region dealing with financial hardship, a flat economy, reduced cash value to commercial fishermen for their fish, and the high costs of gasoline and heating fuel.
~ Because it’s financially lucrative for the State of Alaska.

HOW is it an economic opportunity?
~ It’ll create jobs for locals.
~ What’s in it for the state: we don’t know. There has been no factual case offered to Alaska citizens or the regions residents on how it benefits the State. Taxes? Royalties? Don’t know. How much? When? Don’t know. Somebody, anybody, tell us.

The JOBS – well, gosh. Those Bristol Bay villagers need to position themselves to take advantage of that opportunity. They need to think ahead. Move to an urban area (Anchorage, southeast Alaska, Kenai, Fairbanks, Colorado, etc.) to get some training, skills and geology and engineering degrees. If they can’t get a job at Pebble, they can still get a job somewhere else.

JOBS?
Director of Site Operations. No, sorry, that’s taken. It’s Gernot Wober, professional geologist, Manager of Technical Operations for Northern Dynasty Minerals Ltd., previous Vice President of Exploration for Great Basin Gold Ltd., managed exploration projects from British Columbia to South Africa.
Before that it was filled by Lena BrommelandManger Lands/Technical Services at Hunter Dickinson,Vancouver, Canada.

Public Affairs. Nope, sorry. We’re not recruiting, but we’ll keep your application on file. We brought Mike Heatwole in from eight years as Director of Corporate Communications for Alyeska Pipeline Service Company. Before that he was a legislative aide at the federal and state levels, managed electoral campaigns, provided corporate communication consulting services to Alaska companies. He’s a board member of the Alaska State Chamber of Commerce and the Alaska Mineral and Energy Resource Education Fund.

Other senior management postions, you ask? Those positions are filled.
Mid-level administration? Well, no. There’s a huge pool of credentialed career industry professionals to draw from, none of whom are “local”.
And if you did get hired by some miracle, you’d have to move to Anchorage, wouldn’t you. You’re not going to be working out of corporate offices in Bristol Bay, are you?

From Pebble’s own presentation materials, 1003 employees in 2007:
Alaskan 544
Local 119
US 243
Canada 83
“Other” 14

34% of employees are not Alaskan.
88% are not local.
12% are local.

Here’s what’s even funnier – I could not find even ONE open job solicitation on-line, for Pebble Mine employment. NOT ONE.

]]> By: Closet Mudpup http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-113878 Closet Mudpup Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:11:38 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-113878 An aerial photo of the Berkeley pit in Butte, MT. The pit is approx 1 mile long and ½ mile wide. The water level in the pit is constantly rising (it is currently almost 1,000' deep), and is forecast to reach the level of the local water table in 2020. Since the water in the pit is essentially one very large sulfuric acid bath (pH 2.5), as it enters the aquifers, they will of course become unusable not only due to the acidity, but the concentration of dissolved metals in the aquifers will be equal to the levels in the water entering from the pit plus the amount additionally dissolved by the acidic water inside the aquifers. I think we need to add the word <i>half-life</i> to our discussions of mines to drive the point home that no mine is finished wreaking environmental havoc when active mining ceases. Ironically, they tend to become bigger problems after mining ceases b/c water is allowed to accumulate in them. Based on the track record of every open pit mine that has ever been excavated, there does not appear to be any way that Pebble Mine does not inevitably define the end of the Bristol Bay fishery. And Pebble is just the beginning - there are several more equally large claims filed on State land in the same area. http://www.scenicsantaritas.org/photos/butte_BerkeleyPit.jpg An aerial photo of the Berkeley pit in Butte, MT. The pit is approx 1 mile long and ½ mile wide. The water level in the pit is constantly rising (it is currently almost 1,000′ deep), and is forecast to reach the level of the local water table in 2020. Since the water in the pit is essentially one very large sulfuric acid bath (pH 2.5), as it enters the aquifers, they will of course become unusable not only due to the acidity, but the concentration of dissolved metals in the aquifers will be equal to the levels in the water entering from the pit plus the amount additionally dissolved by the acidic water inside the aquifers. I think we need to add the word half-life to our discussions of mines to drive the point home that no mine is finished wreaking environmental havoc when active mining ceases. Ironically, they tend to become bigger problems after mining ceases b/c water is allowed to accumulate in them. Based on the track record of every open pit mine that has ever been excavated, there does not appear to be any way that Pebble Mine does not inevitably define the end of the Bristol Bay fishery. And Pebble is just the beginning – there are several more equally large claims filed on State land in the same area.

http://www.scenicsantaritas.org/photos/butte_BerkeleyPit.jpg

]]> By: Closet Mudpup http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-113842 Closet Mudpup Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:29:20 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-113842 To supplement the information provided by <b>CG @ 75</b>, this link is to the site <i>Pitwatch</i>, and has information about he Berkeley open pit in Butte, MT. The realities of the Berkeley pit are horrific - such as its 2.5 pH and its dissolved metals content being so high that the water in the pit is now being used as a source for "mining" the dissolved metals from the walls of the pit. It is one of the nation's biggest Superfund cleanup sites - another example of the mining industry's socialized costs. This is not the result of any major miscalculation of accident - this is simply what mines do due to the earth's natural chemistry. http://www.pitwatch.org/news.htm To supplement the information provided by CG @ 75, this link is to the site Pitwatch, and has information about he Berkeley open pit in Butte, MT. The realities of the Berkeley pit are horrific – such as its 2.5 pH and its dissolved metals content being so high that the water in the pit is now being used as a source for “mining” the dissolved metals from the walls of the pit. It is one of the nation’s biggest Superfund cleanup sites – another example of the mining industry’s socialized costs. This is not the result of any major miscalculation of accident – this is simply what mines do due to the earth’s natural chemistry.

http://www.pitwatch.org/news.htm

]]> By: Alaska Pi http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-113816 Alaska Pi Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:05:23 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-113816 @79 CG - Here in SE Ak there is an actual hard rock mining curriculum... Folks who are taking/have taken it with an eye to Kensington opening are looking north to Pebble as well... Of course locals end up with the piddly jobs in great numbers... wasn't disputing that... merely pointing to the EXPECTATIONS locals around mining projects now have... whether reality lies closer to "Everybody else, they bring in and hire out of an Anchorage office.' @79 CG -
Here in SE Ak there is an actual hard rock mining curriculum…
Folks who are taking/have taken it with an eye to Kensington opening are looking north to Pebble as well…
Of course locals end up with the piddly jobs in great numbers… wasn’t disputing that… merely pointing to the EXPECTATIONS locals around mining projects now have… whether reality lies closer to “Everybody else, they bring in and hire out of an Anchorage office.’

]]> By: CG http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-113533 CG Sat, 01 Aug 2009 03:06:33 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-113533 Alaska Pi: "Somebody here said something about only menial jobs being available for locals… that is not really true- AK has voc-techincal schools for mining …" That's true. There are engineering and petroleum industry training programs at University of Alaska. Have been for a looong time. Since 1922, when UAF was founded as the Alaska Agriculture College and School of Mines. So? What does that have to do with the type of jobs Pebble Mine is suggesting will be available to the region's villages? We know from 50 years of Alaska business practice, that when companies go in to deliver projects - construction, oil, whatever - they need locals to cook, housekeep and clean toilets. Everybody else, they bring in and hire out of an Anchorage office. Alaska Pi: “Somebody here said something about only menial jobs being available for locals… that is not really true- AK has voc-techincal schools for mining …”

That’s true. There are engineering and petroleum industry training programs at University of Alaska. Have been for a looong time. Since 1922, when UAF was founded as the Alaska Agriculture College and School of Mines.

So? What does that have to do with the type of jobs Pebble Mine is suggesting will be available to the region’s villages?

We know from 50 years of Alaska business practice, that when companies go in to deliver projects – construction, oil, whatever – they need locals to cook, housekeep and clean toilets. Everybody else, they bring in and hire out of an Anchorage office.

]]> By: Alaska Pi http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-113336 Alaska Pi Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:13:57 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-113336 oh fooey- please excuse the typos and spellos @ 77 . I got kind of overexcited there... oh fooey-
please excuse the typos and spellos @ 77 .
I got kind of overexcited there…

]]> By: Alaska Pi http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-113334 Alaska Pi Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:12:32 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-113334 AKM- I'm very proud of these Alaskan neighbors. We are overdue for a full and complete re-hash of what the state constitution can be said to mean as regarding the benefit-for-all language. Somebody here said something about only menial jobs being available for locals... that is not really true- AK has voc-techincal schools for mining ... It is more important that most of the money flowing into rural Alaska flows right back out PDQ and this mine wouldn't be different . We must support the ideas and activities which allow rural neighbors to thumb THEIR noses at projects like this . We cannot ask them to stay poor so others may enjoy the scenery which is what the mining corp folks would have locals believe... We HAVE to have investment in sustainable activites in rural Alaska and enough infrastructure to support those activiites. The foregone fish an or on-limit problems in Bristol Bay are affecting folks' ability to fish commercially and provide themselves with the cash they need to buy food and fuel. the fish bigwigs cal ita small problem but when you earn your full years dollars in a few weeks it is NOT a small problem... AKM-
I’m very proud of these Alaskan neighbors.
We are overdue for a full and complete re-hash of what the state constitution can be said to mean as regarding the benefit-for-all language.

Somebody here said something about only menial jobs being available for locals… that is not really true- AK has voc-techincal schools for mining …

It is more important that most of the money flowing into rural Alaska flows right back out PDQ and this mine wouldn’t be different .
We must support the ideas and activities which allow rural neighbors to thumb THEIR noses at projects like this . We cannot ask them to stay poor so others may enjoy the scenery which is what the mining corp folks would have locals believe…
We HAVE to have investment in sustainable activites in rural Alaska and enough infrastructure to support those activiites.
The foregone fish an or on-limit problems in Bristol Bay are affecting folks’ ability to fish commercially and provide themselves with the cash they need to buy food and fuel. the fish bigwigs cal ita small problem but when you earn your full years dollars in a few weeks it is NOT a small problem…

]]> By: CG http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/30/pebble-mine-dirty-gold-and-the-corporate-war-on-alaskas-salmon/#comment-112958 CG Fri, 31 Jul 2009 06:22:38 +0000 http://www.themudflats.net/?p=5778#comment-112958 Felt Soul Media spent Summer 2007 in Alaska's Bristol Bay following the world's largest run of sockeye salmon. Patagonia official sponsor. <b><i>Red Gold</i></b> An hour-long documentary, a fabulous dramatic watch, even if you have no interest in the subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbnMNp4i_qM&feature=related <i>Audience Choice and Director’s Award, Mountainfilm in Telluride, Colorado Audience Choice, Banff Mountain Film Festival, Canada Best of Festival, Ellensburg Film Festival, Washington Cinematic Excellence, Newburyport Documentary Film Festival, Massachussetts Best Environmental Film, Taos Mountain Film Festival, New Mexico Best Environmental Film, Kendal Mountain Film Festival, United Kingdom Big Sky Award, Big Sky Documentary Film Festival, Missoula, Montana Best Environmental Film, Vancouver</i> Red Gold is currently touring with Telluride Mountainfilm on Tour, Banff Mountain Film Festival World Tour and the Wild & Scenic Tour. Check their events calendars for potential screenings near you. <b>Email emilylong@feltsoulmedia.com for more information about screenings in your area, or to host a screening.</b> Felt Soul Media spent Summer 2007 in Alaska’s Bristol Bay following the world’s largest run of sockeye salmon. Patagonia official sponsor.

Red Gold An hour-long documentary, a fabulous dramatic watch, even if you have no interest in the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbnMNp4i_qM&feature=related

Audience Choice and Director’s Award, Mountainfilm in Telluride, Colorado
Audience Choice, Banff Mountain Film Festival, Canada
Best of Festival, Ellensburg Film Festival, Washington
Cinematic Excellence, Newburyport Documentary Film Festival, Massachussetts
Best Environmental Film, Taos Mountain Film Festival, New Mexico
Best Environmental Film, Kendal Mountain Film Festival, United Kingdom
Big Sky Award, Big Sky Documentary Film Festival, Missoula, Montana
Best Environmental Film, Vancouver

Red Gold is currently touring with Telluride Mountainfilm on Tour, Banff Mountain Film Festival World Tour and the Wild & Scenic Tour. Check their events calendars for potential screenings near you.

Email emilylong@feltsoulmedia.com for more information about screenings in your area, or to host a screening.

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