#28 Alaska Pi Says:

Well I am very glad you are rolling up your sleeves. I am not in Alaska and probably never will be, but yes, we have to think long term instead of focusing solely on the next quarter’s dividend. In that context the only means that has an effect is to decrease demand. In the long term that equates to negative population growth. (Sorry for the torturous term).

#29 Just Had To Jump In Says

I agree to some extent with your ideas for defending the local environment, but your point about the more remote environment is very well taken. If we continue to consume at the same or even higher levels, yet constrain local production, we are simply inviting the unscrupulous to exploit resource dependent economies.It is a difficult problem.

#33 strangelet Says:

I essentially agree with you on every point but one, I think local action to impose stringent criteria for operations could be effective. It would require
the formation of a concensus.

I am well aware that is all fine and good to have rules respecting what can be done and how it should be done, but I am also aware that if they are not enforced, they may as well not exist.

I hope I have furthered the conersation.

ciao,

As always, your comments are very much on point. Unfortunately, the underlying mind-set that needs to be changed is very deep-seated and widespread. Because the world is so much bigger than any individual person, it is almost impossible to avoid believing that natural resources are fundamentally inexhaustible. Even in regions where some resources are in obviously short supply, it is easier for people to consider it a problem of transporting relief supply, rather than a fundamental limitation.

This gut-level belief in unlimited resources is why conventional economics considers the cost of extracted resources to be only the operational cost of extracting them. Which is why fossil fuels appear to be so much cheaper than renewable energy sources.

Anyhow, I guess I don’t think that the residents of Beluga, or of the whole state of Alaska, are likely to be able to substantially affect the global mis-pricing of fossil fuels in the short run (although, like all of us, they should do what they can).

In the short run, I think they need aerial and elevation shots of existing strip mines, and reports on the environmental damage that has been caused in the areas surrounding many sites. Strip-mining, like clear-cutting, does not have a sterling record of environmental sensitivity.

While I agree with your premise that a sufficiently rigorous regime of extraction taxes and environmental-damage bonds (sufficient to make the cost of extraction approximate the true cost to the state and people) might well kill the project as unprofitable, I think you agree that the chances of that happening are very small.

In the short run (i.e., the next couple of years), I think a PR appeal to emotion is in order. It is certainly not my impression that most resource-extraction organizations are easily swayed by public/political opinion, but — as you mention — the business case for this mine may be a little sketchy. If so, they may not be willing to commit to a full bore PR/lobbying campaign.

One can hope.

Are they stupid or something?

Make laws and regulations in Alaska that require not just bonds BUT actual $ that is banked at a rate that will cover ANY potential pollution, say 10%.

Tax the gross proceeds of the mine at a rate that puts it in line with the oil taxes we charge.

Demand base studies to be done on all resources before anything is done, water, air, fish habitat, wildlife, etc. Once we know what we have in HARD numbers, then demand it stays that way.

Working NOT to say no BUT yes UNDER OUR rules and regulations will either take the profit out of it OR force them to clean up their act.

Just shuffling resource mining to other countries does not make us good world citizens. Last I looked we use much more than our share of resources so we need to be responsible in gathering those supplies, whereever they come from.

It will take work and we need to get to it, even the dirty stuff.