Ho Ho Ho! Now Let Me See Your Papers!
7 12 2009
Nothing says “Christmas spirit” like looking into the little smiling face of a poor child at Christmas and telling them they can’t have that Lego set because Mommy doesn’t have her papers in order. That’s right, the Salvation Army toy drive in Houston, Texas this year was requiring paperwork only available to U.S. citizens before they gave little Mary (or “little Maria”) a teddy bear. They required participants to present social security cards to participate.
But, then they got a bunch of grief from people who thought that Christmas presents for kids shouldn’t be a political issue. Would Jesus require proof of citizenship? And now, the toy drive powers-that-be apparently rethought the meaning of Christmas spirit. No longer will the Salvation Army require the paperwork to participate in the “Angel Tree” program.
“It was never our intention to offend anyone with our registration requirement to provide a Social Security number, or to give the impression that we were discriminating against those individuals and families who do not have a Social Security number,” Maj. Chris Flanagan, area commander for The Salvation Army Greater Houston Area Command said in a statement.
Registration in the program is up 20% this year.
The charities’ policies had attracted criticism from immigrant advocates, who charged they were punishing children for the actions of their parents by requiring such documentation.
Cesar Espinosa, a Houston immigrant advocate, said that the Salvation Army’s decision to no longer ask for Social Security numbers for the Angel Tree program was “the right thing to do.”
“We’re happy that everyone will be treated fairly and that the true spirit of Christmas has prevailed and children will just be treated as children, not as aliens or anything like that,” Espinosa said.
Merry Christmas, every one.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Thanks for posting … it amazes me how stupid adults can be sometimes. Let’s punish the most innocent humans for the transgressions of their parents. While we’re at it, let’s deny emergency medical treatment to them too
I’m certainly an advocate of ensuring that people are in this country legally, but let’s stop the foolishness this holiday season.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:03 AM
The next sound you hear will be my head exploding…
December 7th, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Good grief- the Salvation Army?! Sounds like some conservative donors put lots of ’strings” on their presents to this worthwhile organization…
December 7th, 2009 at 11:09 AM
I’m glad that the Salvation Army is not being discriminatory towards the children during this holiday season. I’ll be happy to give them a donation.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Dear sir,
Let me assuage your fears that were giving the impression of discriminating against anyone. Instead, you WERE indeed discriminating against people, against needy children, on the basis of something as silly and out of their control as their parents’ place of birth.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:11 AM
“It was never our intention to …. give the impression that we were discriminating against those individuals and families who do not have a Social Security number,”
Wanna bet? That was EXACTLY what they were trying to do. Why else have the requirement? They just got caught and now they’re backpedaling.
Next they’ll be asking to see proof of your Christian bona fides. You know – prove you’re not one of them
December 7th, 2009 at 11:17 AM
I’m glad Salvation Army rethought their social security number requirement. If they hadn’t, I would have rethought further donations to their organization.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:17 AM
Legal or illegal, all children love receiving a gift. And for those in a situation of hardship, it might be a rare bit of joy for them. The idea that some people would deny any child being given a teddy bear based on their citizenship is despicable. And I agree with PA@1, should we also step over these children if they are lying sick or hurt in the road? Is this what ‘real America’ is? It’s not supposed to be according to the inscription on our Statue of Liberty.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:24 AM
And now I have seen it all. So it’s come to this: teddy bears for Americans only. MASSIVE SIGH.
If it weren’t for Sarah Palin venturing out in public, signing books, being all Rogue-y in a Fidel Castro hat, I’d find it difficult to hold my head up today:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/07/sarah-palins-hat-silly-or_n_382706.html
Bless her heart. Doesn’t she look excited? It’s nice to see the kids all starry eyed during holidays. Yes, even that big Silly Kid, Sarah Palin.
=)
December 7th, 2009 at 11:37 AM
A new program: Toys for Real, American, Patriotic Tots…… T.R.A.P.T.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:43 AM
SIGH. No really, in all seriousness, this was the most depressing thing I have read in a long time. And this in a year when we’ve had birthers, death panels, tea parties, granny-killing socialist health care, a POTUS who is allegedly a Fascist/Socialist/Communist Kenyan who is also British AND Sarah freaking Palin “wrote” a book then went around the country promoting it so it’s All Palin All the Bloody Time.
When does this stop, I ask you? Shame on the Salvation Army. This is pretty low. What’s worse is the back-pedalling. What do they mean “it wasn’t their intention” to discriminate? Then WHY require SSN then?!?!!
Has the dumbing down of America gotten so rampant and so taken for granted that any old crap can be announced to the masses and expected to be believed? Or any 2 bit hack politician can write a “book” packed with lies, distortions and generally cracked-out anecdotes and be a best-seller?? Oh wait…..
UGH!!! It’s enough to make me lose the plot completely. When will we stop tearing into each other?
I believe all immigrants into America (and Australia) should be legal. My family were immigrants and we went thru the legal channels, paid the fees, got our papers and did it all above board. However – the issue of illegal immigration is a complex matter that requires thoughtful analysis and compassionate solutions. Come the bloody ON, Christians – this is ridiculous! Can we PLEASE set some sort of DECENT example of the Christ we PROCLAIM to follow??!!!
What bloody good is it to “wage war” on being able to say Merry bloody Christmas as if THAT were the be all and end all of expressions of Faith (it’s not) only to turn around and engage in callous and despicable acts of discrimination against, of all people, CHILDREN??!! Immigrant children who have no choice WHERE they go? Who are dependent on their adult parents and who would otherwise be homeless and/or orphans if they had been left behind. THESE are the ones the supposedly Christian Salvos CHOOSE to pick on? Really??!!
I am thoroughly ashamed for my fellow Christians.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:44 AM
OH BOY, glad they changed their minds
December 7th, 2009 at 11:56 AM
http://www.slate.com/id/2237638/pagenum/all/#p2
The above article is a must read on Ms. Palin and who she is “palling” around.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Hi Jeanne,
I worked for the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS, now called Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE) for a number of years. I should point out that the statement that Social Security cards are only available to U.S. Citizens is inacurate. Actually, any lawful permanent resident and lawully admitted non-resident within certain visa classifications are eligible for a card.
Indeed, prior to legislation enacted post 9/11 virutally anyone, legal or not, could obtain a card. In fact one of the criteria for the various amnesty programs that took place to legalize the residency status of otherwise law abiding and productive illegal aliens was to present proof that the illegal was paying taxes and contributing to social security.
Don’t get me wrong. I completely agree that it is unfortunate that a vaunted charitible organization like the Salvation Army should feel the need to bow to obvious political pressure and require qualifications for receipt of charity from them. Just sayin….
December 7th, 2009 at 12:07 PM
And now The Salvation Army is making The Baby Lou Dobbs cry… So, that’s a Good Thing!
December 7th, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Seriously, being a Scrooge at Christmas time is idiotic. I’m glad they changed their policy. Being mean to children is just wrong.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Big fat credit and ‘Well done’ to whomever was responsible for objecting and influencing SA to be responsive.
I won’t be supporting the Salvation Army and will not participate in future Angel Tree projects, something we’ve done for awhile.
I don’t think that families in difficult times should ‘register’ for a Christmas present, for any number of good reasons:
1. Poverty is embarrassing and undignified.
2. Christmas is about generosity and giving. Paperwork optional. There’s no requirement that charitable projects have to identify WHO got a present – numbers of children are all they need.
3. We train poor people to sign up for programs in order to meet needs. Let’s stop doing that. This is one more poverty training program. The pride of self-reliance has disappeared. When people swallow down pride often enough, they desensitize and disassociate, in order to make it less painful to do what they have to do.
Could we maybe make it about little ones and Christmas? Does the Salvation Army have to take credit for the present?
Programs like this used to have just a little bit of dignity built in. Families didn’t “register” for a food box or a Christmas dinner basket. It was charitable and Christian to provide FOOD. People didn’t ask for it, unless they really needed it.
Now it’s just part of the social services ‘machine’.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:29 PM
The sad thing is that too many organizations are requiring people to disclose personal info despite federal law to the contrary. Salvation Army, Boy Scouts, etc., etc. Time for someone to straighten these folks out and get them refocused on their core missions instead of this Bush-era crap.
btw – anyone see the interview in which McCain called S’error Palin “irrelevant”?
December 7th, 2009 at 12:30 PM
How very sad that these people would try to punish small children by withholding a small gift for Christmas. Most of the best estimates put the number of “illegals” at around 1% of the whole population. The numbers have also dropped because of the bad economy since there is so much less work. Let’s also not forget that it’s “business” that often depends upon this source of very cheap labor.
December 7th, 2009 at 12:30 PM
oops… forgot the link.
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/12/07/while-praising-palin-mccain-calls-her-irrelevant/
December 7th, 2009 at 12:33 PM
This ‘christian’ group keeps doing horrid things (to include Sarah Palin) which will drive others further and further away from their declared God/Jesus. I’m very disappointed in the Salvation Army and plan to provide for others (with an emphasis on children) through a different organization (that gives w/no strings attached) this holiday season. Shame, shame on you to the leaders of the Salvation Army!
December 7th, 2009 at 1:02 PM
Oh my, the hat… is she coming out with a CD now, cause she looks like one of the tween singers.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:18 PM
I think this one might require a new category. Stomach Turnery? Total Outragery?
December 7th, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Tell me how sick this is:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/06/oreilly-ambushes-elementa_n_381756.html
I saw the Salvation Army requirements a couple days ago and thought it was rather uncharitable. But stalking a school superintendent crying, “Why are you ruining Christmas?” seemed more abhorrent to me.
I don’t have access to TV channels except 2 PBS; but full access to the Internet for many years now. It’s enough to see what is happening on both. Free speech has its upsides, and its downsides.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:38 PM
salvation army excuse is total bs. they most certainly intended to create a barrier between toys and kids. barriers that would most likely be insurmountable for children of new immigrants (legal or not). their policy is to only give toys to citizens.
children are CHILDREN for crying out loud. defenseless, naive, dependent on tall people and they almost to a one love toys.
tall people give children toys cause it makes the kids happy. hellooooo.
toy giving is not the appropriate venue for a political statement.
if you go to the story link and read the few comments, you will cry some more. children of non-citizens can just get a lump of coal.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:42 PM
i have to say that it would be an interesting counterpoint if the salvation army only received toys that are made in america……….now that would be a different argument.
December 7th, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Why does this remind me of Nazi Germany? Show papers to walk on the street, to shop, to ride public transportation, have utilities hooked up, children to enroll in school, now…. to get a Christmas Gift.
December 7th, 2009 at 2:58 PM
War on Christmas
Republican Evangelical Christians fall into the Dobbs/Buchanan camp in matters of immigration regarding “them foreigners”, so why wouldn’t the Salvation Army follow suit?
December 7th, 2009 at 3:16 PM
I met a guy today who was talking about the “stores cannot say Merry Xmas anymore, I always say Merry Xmas, that’s why I wear my Merry Xmas pin…” etc. I said, in our house, I am Jewish, the hubby is Catholic, we settle for any of the above (big smile). But we alsways celebrate Xmas because it’s so much fun.
He had no reply.
December 7th, 2009 at 3:47 PM
This is so sad – for years, the Sallies were the go-to guys who served the poor with no questions asked. There were a couple times, during my restless and rootless youth, I went to them for a meal or a place to stay and got it. I don’t know who got to them this time or what was said. I sincerely hope they reconsider this path, and will return to their original mission.
Otherwise, everyone be sure to click the link on # 12 and read what Mr. Hitchens has to say about Sa’rah.
December 7th, 2009 at 4:17 PM
1. Poverty is embarrassing and undignified.
I object to this statement, though I will have to be back later with more since I’m about to have to leave this computer soon (computer lab hours). But I’m surprised no one has objected to this particular point.
December 7th, 2009 at 4:19 PM
I had responded in the forum…but wanted to again state what I found out..
When I first heard this, I immediately called our local salvation army and spoke with the captain there. He had no idea what I was talking about, but told me he would look into and get back to me.
He called me back within an hour. He explained (not saying I totally agree, but this is his explanation)…that the paper that ran this story did not include all the details. The salvation army tried to explain on the web site of the paper, but few people go there.
Many social service agencies, for which I worked for forty years in various capacities, need to coordinate their services. There is about 90% of the people who are honest. but that leaves around 10% who will ‘work the system’ to the best of their ability. Without coordiantion a few families could go from agency to agency taking as much as they can, leaving some other families with nothing. I have seen it all the time. Especially in years like this one, when the need has greatly increased, there must be a way to coordinate so that if a family receives say toys (but could be food, etc) from one agency, they would be denied at the next. To me it is much better that more families receive at least some, than few families take it all.
anyway, did not really want to defend them…they very well may have tried to discriminate…but at least here in my area I have been reassured that need is the primary concern and I believe them. I have seen the good work they do here…and with many ‘illegals’. Although I must admit I give mainly to our local ‘rural ministry’ which gives things freely to anyone in need, few questions asked. Happy Holidays all…and toys for all!!
December 7th, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Here’s an article that goes into a little more detail. Getting the kids signed up and verifiying family income, etc… To be able to get all the kids in need a toy yah gotta have an idea of how many toys you need. Nothing is worse than a kid showing up and going away empty handed.
http://www.sacultura.com/Some_toy_drives_check_immigration_status.html
December 7th, 2009 at 4:46 PM
#6 You hit it squarely on the head. I love when comments begin with “It was never our intention to offend …” Like it’s YOUR fault for being offended.
I stopped giving to this group long ago because of its “Christian” ties. You shouldn’t have to buy into the dogma (religious or political) to get a helping hand.
December 7th, 2009 at 5:06 PM
who lives in Houston, now hangs her head in shame
December 7th, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Re: the “Merry Christmas” greetings…
I always smile and reply “Happy Solstice”…
Interstingly enough, there are many who inquire about my meaning…
always happy to oblige…
December 7th, 2009 at 6:24 PM
My sister works in a school in the southwest where there are many immigrants, legal and illegal. While I certainly support the fight against illegal immigration, I have seen firsthand how it affects the children in her school and city. Families have been torn apart and children who were born here and speak only English have been forced to move to Mexico. While the adults are to blame for creating the situation, the children are often the ones who suffer the most when the families are caught by the authorities.
While I understand that they need to attempt to prevent people from taking advantage by receiving gifts and food from several sources, denying children toys at Christmas goes against everything that Christmas, and Christ, stand for.
December 7th, 2009 at 6:29 PM
The Salvation Army has a long history of “discrimination” against things they don’t like. I remember them being in the news a few years ago re: their anti gay discrimination. Now it seems they tried to get away with discriminating against possible illegals, but they made a mistake. Big One. -They chose to exercise their beliefs at Christmas time, against Children!! I have not donated to them in a long time and donate instead to other agencies I trust. They are a religious foundation of a severe type and use their power (and maybe your money) to lobby to further their agenda in Washington. Really check it out..
On the other side I know about the people Judy @ comment #30 was told of. I once knew one and she got free (multiple) gifts and food donations and toys from lots of agencies and showed pride in the fact she could do that. Maybe she changed. I don’t know,didn’t care enough to keep her as a close friend as I was donating to some of the people she was scamming.
I hope this made some sense–I am so D*@# mad I can’t think straight.
December 7th, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Only in redneck country would this kind of crap happen. How sad this country has become. I wonder what Jesus would really say about this. Shame on these people. Shame of the state and the country to take their hate out on the children.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:20 PM
I can’t even think of anything to say about this. The world has turned itself upside down, and it came from Texas…where else…
December 7th, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Never their intent?
No comment.
That said, the Salvation Army has no business demanding anyone social security number.
They don’t use them as employer IDs or student IDs anymore because of privacy issues and identification theft. And the Salvation Army has the nerve to demand one?
Are they giving away toys or refinancing your home?
December 7th, 2009 at 10:22 PM
“It was never our intention to offend anyone” is the classic beginning to a non-apology. If you were offended, we are sorry. They aren’t sorry for being bigoted Scrooges, they are sorry that you were offended. This sounds remarkably unrepentant and un-Christlike.
Maj. Chris Flanagan went on to say that they never meant, “to give the impression that we were discriminating against those individuals and families who do not have a Social Security number…” The hell they didn’t. That is EXACTLY what they doing. They wanted to exclude those without S.S. numbers, assuming they were illegal aliens. How is that NOT discriminatory?
I not only won’t contribute anything else to the Salvation Army, I want my money back that I already have contributed. This conduct is loathsome in the extreme. I will remain vigorously opposed to the S.A. until I see a statement from the national leadership that this conduct was wrong, beneath contempt, and does not reflect the official policy of the Salvation Army.
I’ve always been uncomfortable with the quasi-military affect of the S.A., but now I’ve got another reason to dislike them: they are teabagger @sshats.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:54 PM
faithfulpup Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 6:29 PM
The Salvation Army has a long history of “discrimination” against things they don’t like.
____
Indeed. It’s all I can do not to yell “I don’t donate to homophobes and bigots!” when I walk by their annoying bellringers this time of year.
It makes me SICK that this vile organization’s panhandling is seen as some kind of sweet Christmasy tradition.
I used to drive to the next city over to donate to Goodwill instead of taking used belongings to the SA in my town.
I hope this PR disaster will finally make the truth about this wretched organization known far and wide.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:56 PM
I should clarify that I now live in a place with TWO Goodwills nearby, so I haven’t changed my donation habits, just my zipcode.
December 8th, 2009 at 7:23 AM
Does it strike one else that BillO’s crusade to save Christmas is misdirected. That maybe he should be looking at self proclamed Christains, like himself?
December 8th, 2009 at 12:28 PM
This reminds me of the time the local mall had a brilliant idea. They started taking appointments to see Santa. The only trouble was, they forgot to inform the public that appointments were not optional, they were compulsory. And so, imagine the herd of angry parents who made a special trip to the mall with their little ones, only to be turned away. Just like Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem.
Imagine the crying children who don’t understand when mommy or daddy says, “Sorry, sweetie, Santa won’t see you unless we come back in two days at 1:30 p.m.” Or go to the mall that doesn’t take appointments.
Whoever comes up with these ideas?