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	<title>Comments on: The $50,000 Witch Hunt.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/</link>
	<description>Tiptoeing Through the Muck of Alaskan Politics</description>
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		<title>By: dean</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173308</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173308</guid>
		<description>#2 I See Villages from my House says:

&quot;A sales tax needs to be instituted to share the tax burden on all residents.&quot;

The tax burden is already shared by all residents - even those who rent instead of owning property. How do you think the property taxes on rental property gets paid? I can assure that property taxes on apartments and other rental properties are paid from rental income so even renters share our current tax burden, albeit indirectly.

While property taxes may not be the best solution to funding city government, sales taxes are an even worse solution. Sales taxes are regressive - they hurt low income families and they help high income families. If Anchorage were to institute a sales tax in place of property tax, do you think that rental property prices all over town would fall because of the elimination of property taxes? Hell no, the rental property owners would get a windfall and low income families would get screwed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#2 I See Villages from my House says:</p>
<p>&#8220;A sales tax needs to be instituted to share the tax burden on all residents.&#8221;</p>
<p>The tax burden is already shared by all residents &#8211; even those who rent instead of owning property. How do you think the property taxes on rental property gets paid? I can assure that property taxes on apartments and other rental properties are paid from rental income so even renters share our current tax burden, albeit indirectly.</p>
<p>While property taxes may not be the best solution to funding city government, sales taxes are an even worse solution. Sales taxes are regressive &#8211; they hurt low income families and they help high income families. If Anchorage were to institute a sales tax in place of property tax, do you think that rental property prices all over town would fall because of the elimination of property taxes? Hell no, the rental property owners would get a windfall and low income families would get screwed.</p>
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		<title>By: akmuckraker</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173270</link>
		<dc:creator>akmuckraker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173270</guid>
		<description>There were a few comments from &#039;All I Saw&#039; which I&#039;m following up on, but have removed for the time being.  I hate to leave allegations of corruption and criminal activity without specifics to back it up at this point.  All I Saw and I have been corresponding about this via email.  Just wanted to let anyone know who may have come back looking for the comments.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were a few comments from &#8216;All I Saw&#8217; which I&#8217;m following up on, but have removed for the time being.  I hate to leave allegations of corruption and criminal activity without specifics to back it up at this point.  All I Saw and I have been corresponding about this via email.  Just wanted to let anyone know who may have come back looking for the comments.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Ladybirddeb</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173249</link>
		<dc:creator>Ladybirddeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173249</guid>
		<description>If Sullivan, Ossiander and friends are so certain that the prior independent audit is wrong and that S&amp;P is wrong, why don&#039;t they pay for the new independent audit out of their own pockets with the following contingency: Only if a new audit confirms their assertions of wrongdoing/fraud/corruption will they be paid back for the cost of the otherwise unnecessary re-audit.  I guarantee that if that idea was publicly proposed to them that the issue  would cease to exist pretty darn quickly.  Manipulating and forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for what certainly appears to be nothing more than a campaign strategy -- and a really disgusting and criminally dishonest one at that -- is a revolting abuse of power!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Sullivan, Ossiander and friends are so certain that the prior independent audit is wrong and that S&amp;P is wrong, why don&#8217;t they pay for the new independent audit out of their own pockets with the following contingency: Only if a new audit confirms their assertions of wrongdoing/fraud/corruption will they be paid back for the cost of the otherwise unnecessary re-audit.  I guarantee that if that idea was publicly proposed to them that the issue  would cease to exist pretty darn quickly.  Manipulating and forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for what certainly appears to be nothing more than a campaign strategy &#8212; and a really disgusting and criminally dishonest one at that &#8212; is a revolting abuse of power!</p>
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		<title>By: WhichTruth</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173209</link>
		<dc:creator>WhichTruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173209</guid>
		<description>Since they are so in favor of audits,  I&#039;m sure they would back us with a resolution requesting congress to audit the Bush administration.  I&#039;ll look for it at the nest Assembly meeting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since they are so in favor of audits,  I&#8217;m sure they would back us with a resolution requesting congress to audit the Bush administration.  I&#8217;ll look for it at the nest Assembly meeting.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173207</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173207</guid>
		<description>There will be rallies for health care around the country this week. I hope everyone here concerned about our broken health care/insurance system can make it to a rally. The president has not quit and we shouldn&#039;t either. It&#039;s not over yet. Please put your senator and representative on your weekly call list until it&#039;s done. Make some noise!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There will be rallies for health care around the country this week. I hope everyone here concerned about our broken health care/insurance system can make it to a rally. The president has not quit and we shouldn&#8217;t either. It&#8217;s not over yet. Please put your senator and representative on your weekly call list until it&#8217;s done. Make some noise!</p>
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		<title>By: strangelet</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173206</link>
		<dc:creator>strangelet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173206</guid>
		<description>@All I Saw -- Thanks for responding.  I have sent you an email from my &quot;Bob&quot; account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@All I Saw &#8212; Thanks for responding.  I have sent you an email from my &#8220;Bob&#8221; account.</p>
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		<title>By: beth</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173204</link>
		<dc:creator>beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173204</guid>
		<description>16 Enjay in E MT Says: 
February 16th, 2010 at 8:13 PM 
[snip] I understand the mathematics of health care – Medicare would only pay maybe $450 for the procedure – Uninsured would pay -0- (or whatever the Dr could get) so we get billed for $900 to make up the difference. In “THEORY” if everyone had insurance, the costs should go down, since everyone will get at least a portion of the procedure cost.[/snip]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have to second what Laurie @ 18 says. No insurance does NOT mean &quot;$0&quot; paid *by* the patient. I&#039;ve a family member with no health (or dental or vision) insurance, no savings, no job, and, in this economy, no prospects for a job. FM was toying with going to the ER last weekend for extreme pain...couldn&#039;t. Couldn&#039;t afford it. How sad is that? I even checked w/ the hosp. to see if something could be &#039;worked out&#039;. 

The answer? &quot;Well, yes. FM will see the financial counselor and then get right in to be checked out by the Dr. Whatever the bill is, FM can pay for it on an installment plan. We can go as low as $25 a week repayment.&quot; When I asked what the &#039;no frills&#039; visit to the ER would come to for a patient with no health insurance, the answer was: &quot;Typically, it starts around $750 but once you consider what services the patient might need, like heart monotoring, IV fluids, wound cleaning and suturing, pain medications, and such, the cost will go up; it all depends on what services the patient needs. Don&#039;t worry, the bill can be paid in installments.&quot;  Riiiight...as if &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; was going to be possible. 

By law, yes, the hosp *must* treat you. &lt;i&gt;And&lt;/i&gt;, by law, you *must* pay for services rendered. If you *don&#039;t*, as Laurie points out, among other nasty and undesirable things, you are hounded relentlessly for payment and/or your credit is ruined for years on end for being a &#039;deadbeat&#039;/scofflaw. 

What the hosp/Dr &#039;loses&#039; in revenue from &#039;deals&#039; made with insurance companies, they can easily make up -in some measure-, by charging *full* price to those *without* insurance. And they do. For example, where we live, someone being picked up in an ambulance (no matter the distance of the ride) &#039;costs&#039; an insurance company $200...the uninsured? $450. On *top* of that, if the patient requires EMS meds/monitoring pre-ambulance loading and/or &lt;i&gt;in&lt;/i&gt; the ambulance, the insurance co is &lt;i&gt;additionally&lt;/i&gt; &#039;charged&#039; a set rate for &lt;i&gt;those&lt;/i&gt; itemized services....the uninsured is charged *full* price for them *in addition to* the *full* cost of the ambulance ride [keeping in mind, the &#039;full price&#039; is a highly *inflated* figure ~ one the hosp has used as a *starting point*/&#039;base&#039; from which to negotiate w/ the insurance co a price that will *still* be profitable to the hosp.] beth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>16 Enjay in E MT Says:<br />
February 16th, 2010 at 8:13 PM<br />
[snip] I understand the mathematics of health care – Medicare would only pay maybe $450 for the procedure – Uninsured would pay -0- (or whatever the Dr could get) so we get billed for $900 to make up the difference. In “THEORY” if everyone had insurance, the costs should go down, since everyone will get at least a portion of the procedure cost.[/snip]<br />
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>
<p>I have to second what Laurie @ 18 says. No insurance does NOT mean &#8220;$0&#8243; paid *by* the patient. I&#8217;ve a family member with no health (or dental or vision) insurance, no savings, no job, and, in this economy, no prospects for a job. FM was toying with going to the ER last weekend for extreme pain&#8230;couldn&#8217;t. Couldn&#8217;t afford it. How sad is that? I even checked w/ the hosp. to see if something could be &#8216;worked out&#8217;. </p>
<p>The answer? &#8220;Well, yes. FM will see the financial counselor and then get right in to be checked out by the Dr. Whatever the bill is, FM can pay for it on an installment plan. We can go as low as $25 a week repayment.&#8221; When I asked what the &#8216;no frills&#8217; visit to the ER would come to for a patient with no health insurance, the answer was: &#8220;Typically, it starts around $750 but once you consider what services the patient might need, like heart monotoring, IV fluids, wound cleaning and suturing, pain medications, and such, the cost will go up; it all depends on what services the patient needs. Don&#8217;t worry, the bill can be paid in installments.&#8221;  Riiiight&#8230;as if <i>that</i> was going to be possible. </p>
<p>By law, yes, the hosp *must* treat you. <i>And</i>, by law, you *must* pay for services rendered. If you *don&#8217;t*, as Laurie points out, among other nasty and undesirable things, you are hounded relentlessly for payment and/or your credit is ruined for years on end for being a &#8216;deadbeat&#8217;/scofflaw. </p>
<p>What the hosp/Dr &#8216;loses&#8217; in revenue from &#8216;deals&#8217; made with insurance companies, they can easily make up -in some measure-, by charging *full* price to those *without* insurance. And they do. For example, where we live, someone being picked up in an ambulance (no matter the distance of the ride) &#8216;costs&#8217; an insurance company $200&#8230;the uninsured? $450. On *top* of that, if the patient requires EMS meds/monitoring pre-ambulance loading and/or <i>in</i> the ambulance, the insurance co is <i>additionally</i> &#8216;charged&#8217; a set rate for <i>those</i> itemized services&#8230;.the uninsured is charged *full* price for them *in addition to* the *full* cost of the ambulance ride [keeping in mind, the 'full price' is a highly *inflated* figure ~ one the hosp has used as a *starting point*/'base' from which to negotiate w/ the insurance co a price that will *still* be profitable to the hosp.] beth.</p>
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		<title>By: fawnskin mudpuppy</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173199</link>
		<dc:creator>fawnskin mudpuppy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173199</guid>
		<description>ok, all i saw, i won&#039;t worry.

just had a nasty little feeling about your revelations and the consequences that befall some folk when they are unawares.

looks like you&#039;re on top of things</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok, all i saw, i won&#8217;t worry.</p>
<p>just had a nasty little feeling about your revelations and the consequences that befall some folk when they are unawares.</p>
<p>looks like you&#8217;re on top of things</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173198</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173198</guid>
		<description>#16 Enjay-  It is interesting to see what health ins actually pays. Sometimes their explanation of benefits shows (using in your example)&quot;benefit&quot; $880.00. copay $20.00
as if they paid the entire amount. They show the discount as a benefit because it is. Those without insurance do not get the benefit of a discount unless they work something out with the doctor/hospital and pay for the service in advance. If they do not have the money to do that, they would be expected to pay more than insurance paid. They would be billed for the entire $900.00. 

Unpaid medical bills can show up and damage a person&#039;s credit. This hurts them when they try to rent an apartment, buy a car, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 Enjay-  It is interesting to see what health ins actually pays. Sometimes their explanation of benefits shows (using in your example)&#8221;benefit&#8221; $880.00. copay $20.00<br />
as if they paid the entire amount. They show the discount as a benefit because it is. Those without insurance do not get the benefit of a discount unless they work something out with the doctor/hospital and pay for the service in advance. If they do not have the money to do that, they would be expected to pay more than insurance paid. They would be billed for the entire $900.00. </p>
<p>Unpaid medical bills can show up and damage a person&#8217;s credit. This hurts them when they try to rent an apartment, buy a car, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: fawnskin mudpuppy</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/02/16/the-50000-debacle/#comment-173194</link>
		<dc:creator>fawnskin mudpuppy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10044#comment-173194</guid>
		<description>all i saw...please, please don&#039;t publish your email address like this.
it&#039;s a very dangerous thing to do.

mods, where are you !!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all i saw&#8230;please, please don&#8217;t publish your email address like this.<br />
it&#8217;s a very dangerous thing to do.</p>
<p>mods, where are you !!!!</p>
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