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	<title>Comments on: Parnell Administration Targets Wolves and Alaska&#8217;s Economy &#8211; Time to Howl!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/</link>
	<description>Tiptoeing Through the Muck of Alaskan Politics</description>
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		<title>By: cate</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-178445</link>
		<dc:creator>cate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 06:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-178445</guid>
		<description>i found this on the defenders of wildlife website from their winter 2010 issue:
http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/defenders_magazine/winter_2010/the_lost_frontier.php

it really is just a politics game.  and let&#039;s not forget that it was sarah palin who sponsored the &quot;predator management&quot; bill (SB 176, forever ingrained in my memory) that allows aerial hunting in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i found this on the defenders of wildlife website from their winter 2010 issue:<br />
<a href="http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/defenders_magazine/winter_2010/the_lost_frontier.php">http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/defenders_magazine/winter_2010/the_lost_frontier.php</a></p>
<p>it really is just a politics game.  and let&#8217;s not forget that it was sarah palin who sponsored the &#8220;predator management&#8221; bill (SB 176, forever ingrained in my memory) that allows aerial hunting in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Rivrat</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-178251</link>
		<dc:creator>Rivrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-178251</guid>
		<description>Dear AK MuckRaker. I thought I remembered a video of the AK Board of Game meeting in Faibanks but cannot find it on your site. It&#039;s where the acting chairman dressed down the woman from back east who came to testify for the proposed buffer expansion.
Any help would be appreciated.

Rivrat
 PS. where do I get a snowflake (avatar?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear AK MuckRaker. I thought I remembered a video of the AK Board of Game meeting in Faibanks but cannot find it on your site. It&#8217;s where the acting chairman dressed down the woman from back east who came to testify for the proposed buffer expansion.<br />
Any help would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Rivrat<br />
 PS. where do I get a snowflake (avatar?)</p>
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		<title>By: some guy</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-178169</link>
		<dc:creator>some guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-178169</guid>
		<description>Moose Pucky.  

What makes you think the Fish and Game professional staff aren&#039;t making waves?  Your assumption they are cowering at their desks and keeping their heads down is far from the truth.  It&#039;s easy to throw stones from the outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moose Pucky.  </p>
<p>What makes you think the Fish and Game professional staff aren&#8217;t making waves?  Your assumption they are cowering at their desks and keeping their heads down is far from the truth.  It&#8217;s easy to throw stones from the outside.</p>
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		<title>By: ValleyIndependent</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-178022</link>
		<dc:creator>ValleyIndependent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-178022</guid>
		<description>Tom and CrazyHorse,  it seems we are of like mind.  Having never felt compelled to shoot anything just because I own guns, I have never understood the &quot;have gun, must kill&quot; attitude, either, and it frightens me.  People that don&#039;t respect animals, be they predator or prey, have a tendency not to respect people, either.  

I suspect it has to do with upbringing.  My dad would shoot something if the freezer was looking empty, but I don&#039;t remember him being much of a trophy hunter.  Those old bulls are really not the best eating, anyway.  My brother used to guide hunters, but most of his own hunting has been with a camera.  The unwritten rule was to kill only what you would eat, or that which was unavoidable and determined to eat you.  Predators were to be taken as necessary to ensure healthy herds of other animals, but not for sport, or just because they were predators.  Mostly, animals were to be enjoyed by viewing at a respectful distance.

One of the challenges we faced back then was that the Park Service and Forest Service personnel tended to be on fairly short rotations, usually not more than 3-5 years.  So, just about the time they were getting to really know the area, the animals, and the old-timers with all their knowledge, they would be off to somewhere else and there would be another brand-newbie starting over with no clue.  There really does need to be some continuity, and, as you say, a whole ecosystem approach, recognizing that the ecosystem does not start or end at human-drawn, arbitrary park boundaries.  There also needs to be some realization that we do not have good data about what was actually there originally, and so, the idea that we will somehow &quot;put it back,&quot; and then &quot;let nature take over,&quot; particularly in a park where millions of people visit and which has seen increased development around it, is fundamentally flawed.  The best we can do now is to create a realistic management plan.  My best to those attempting to do just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom and CrazyHorse,  it seems we are of like mind.  Having never felt compelled to shoot anything just because I own guns, I have never understood the &#8220;have gun, must kill&#8221; attitude, either, and it frightens me.  People that don&#8217;t respect animals, be they predator or prey, have a tendency not to respect people, either.  </p>
<p>I suspect it has to do with upbringing.  My dad would shoot something if the freezer was looking empty, but I don&#8217;t remember him being much of a trophy hunter.  Those old bulls are really not the best eating, anyway.  My brother used to guide hunters, but most of his own hunting has been with a camera.  The unwritten rule was to kill only what you would eat, or that which was unavoidable and determined to eat you.  Predators were to be taken as necessary to ensure healthy herds of other animals, but not for sport, or just because they were predators.  Mostly, animals were to be enjoyed by viewing at a respectful distance.</p>
<p>One of the challenges we faced back then was that the Park Service and Forest Service personnel tended to be on fairly short rotations, usually not more than 3-5 years.  So, just about the time they were getting to really know the area, the animals, and the old-timers with all their knowledge, they would be off to somewhere else and there would be another brand-newbie starting over with no clue.  There really does need to be some continuity, and, as you say, a whole ecosystem approach, recognizing that the ecosystem does not start or end at human-drawn, arbitrary park boundaries.  There also needs to be some realization that we do not have good data about what was actually there originally, and so, the idea that we will somehow &#8220;put it back,&#8221; and then &#8220;let nature take over,&#8221; particularly in a park where millions of people visit and which has seen increased development around it, is fundamentally flawed.  The best we can do now is to create a realistic management plan.  My best to those attempting to do just that.</p>
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		<title>By: CrazyHorse</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-178006</link>
		<dc:creator>CrazyHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-178006</guid>
		<description>ValleyIndependent -
Thank you for your considered response.  I stand corrected in my initial reaction to your first post, and no forgiveness is necessary!  Part of the problem I struggle with here in Montana now and previously while living in Alaska is the type of attitude that Tom posted above . . . &quot;have gun, will kill.&quot;  I am not against hunting for subsistance, but I am against the tendency to hunt predators simply because they need to eat and thus reduce the so-called trophy animals.  With that kind of attitude, one would get rid of mountain lions, bears, wolves, and hell why not, the eagle.  Which is ironic, since man can&#039;t seem to eat enough meat, but by God, if a predator does, kill &#039;em.

That said, I too, have found past efforts by Fish&amp;Game, Nat&#039;l Park mgrs, etc., to be ill advised with sometimes horrific results.  I believe that the &quot;hands off&quot; philosophy here in Montana has stemmed from past mistakes, where they really did not know what they were doing.    What is really needed is a whole ecosystem approach, where all animals are taken into consideration (man included), and not just a focus on those &quot;more desired&quot; animals like cattle, Elk, deer, etc.  Anything less will not work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ValleyIndependent -<br />
Thank you for your considered response.  I stand corrected in my initial reaction to your first post, and no forgiveness is necessary!  Part of the problem I struggle with here in Montana now and previously while living in Alaska is the type of attitude that Tom posted above . . . &#8220;have gun, will kill.&#8221;  I am not against hunting for subsistance, but I am against the tendency to hunt predators simply because they need to eat and thus reduce the so-called trophy animals.  With that kind of attitude, one would get rid of mountain lions, bears, wolves, and hell why not, the eagle.  Which is ironic, since man can&#8217;t seem to eat enough meat, but by God, if a predator does, kill &#8216;em.</p>
<p>That said, I too, have found past efforts by Fish&amp;Game, Nat&#8217;l Park mgrs, etc., to be ill advised with sometimes horrific results.  I believe that the &#8220;hands off&#8221; philosophy here in Montana has stemmed from past mistakes, where they really did not know what they were doing.    What is really needed is a whole ecosystem approach, where all animals are taken into consideration (man included), and not just a focus on those &#8220;more desired&#8221; animals like cattle, Elk, deer, etc.  Anything less will not work.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-178000</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-178000</guid>
		<description>I grew up in Montana and I have seen the pictures of the hunters and trappers booty.  It sickens me to this day.  There is a wave of thought going through this country that if god put it out there I should shoot it, because god gave it to me to shoot.  If it&#039;s livestock these beautiful animals are harrassing and killing then there are provisions for compensation.  This is just more of the &#039;I have a gun, and damned if I&#039;m not going to shoot something.  

I completely understand managed hunting to maintain healthy populations, but random slaughter for sport, give me a break.  I bet the same people who support this kind of behavior also want to strap their penis extenders on and walk around town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up in Montana and I have seen the pictures of the hunters and trappers booty.  It sickens me to this day.  There is a wave of thought going through this country that if god put it out there I should shoot it, because god gave it to me to shoot.  If it&#8217;s livestock these beautiful animals are harrassing and killing then there are provisions for compensation.  This is just more of the &#8216;I have a gun, and damned if I&#8217;m not going to shoot something.  </p>
<p>I completely understand managed hunting to maintain healthy populations, but random slaughter for sport, give me a break.  I bet the same people who support this kind of behavior also want to strap their penis extenders on and walk around town.</p>
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		<title>By: ValleyIndependent</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-177979</link>
		<dc:creator>ValleyIndependent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-177979</guid>
		<description>CrazyHorse, I thank you for your comments.  I think we are in agreement with each other and Mr. Chase that animal populations need to be managed responsibly, which is not different from his stance in his earlier book, nor mine.  The issue is whether we are managing based on truth and science.  Perhaps things have changed, but up through the time the first wolves were introduced there, that was not the case, and family members still living on the edges of the park are not leading me to believe things are much different now.  For many years there were neither wolves nor an elk overpopulation problem.  There were local outfitters making a living on small, sustainable hunts in areas held by gentlemen&#039;s agreements, and we had elk in the freezer.  (That was before a lot of newbies moved in and started having wholesale hunts.)  I remember growing up with animals in variety and abundance wandering through the yard, including lots of black bears, and co-existing with them peacefully, always respecting that it was their home first.  I truly understand that wolves, coyotes, mountain lions and the like need to eat; I just don&#039;t believe in spreading fiction about it.  I remember when black bears started being killed and dumped in trenches inside the park, and were trapped and dropped from helicopters, and transported to sheep grazing areas outside the park, where they were killed by herders, and how adamant my mother was with the local game warden that they should leave the bears alone.  It wasn&#039;t long before they were a rarity.  Now it&#039;s pretty much just grizzly and bison (which were not in our area when I was growing up), and the occasional moose.  For awhile, elk numbers were way down - I don&#039;t know what they are now, but then they were reporting huge numbers of elk in the northern herd, while there was not nearly enough sign in the back country for that many elk.  Just recently, I saw a piece on the news where the target numbers for elk keep being reduced, and I wonder what makes the land so much less able to sustain an elk population now than when I was little.  I also remember too well the fires of 1988 that they let burn as &quot;natural,&quot; when 11 of the 13 were set by man, and which, in a year dry enough that farmers in Powell were looking at water rationing early on, they let go until they almost destroyed my family home.  Thank heavens for snow in September that year.  Then they tried to tell people the fire didn&#039;t do that much damage, and imposed restrictions on overflights so people couldn&#039;t really see for themselves, and they closed and locked gates in some areas where they apparently didn&#039;t want anybody to see the devastation.  I hiked to some of those spots - and it was gut-wrenching.  The last bear biologist I met knew zero about bears - or common courtesy - and I told her to get lost and leave the visiting grizzly bear alone.  The bear wasn&#039;t bothering anything, and was due to move on of her own accord soon in quest of food for herself and her cubs, since she had found none with us.  The biologist was obnoxious, and much harder to get rid of.  Suffice it to say that many of the biologists/managers then had brand new degrees, no common sense, little experience with animals, and no interest in learning from those who had lived there all their lives.  If I am now skeptical of biologists and game managers with shiny new degrees and little field experience, I trust you will now understand why and forgive me.  Likewise, having lived in an area where much of the management was based on falsehoods that sounded good, but that the locals knew to be untrue, and having seen the unintended consequences, I am extremely hesitant to get involved in issues where I am not personally familiar with the facts.  I hope you will forgive that, as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CrazyHorse, I thank you for your comments.  I think we are in agreement with each other and Mr. Chase that animal populations need to be managed responsibly, which is not different from his stance in his earlier book, nor mine.  The issue is whether we are managing based on truth and science.  Perhaps things have changed, but up through the time the first wolves were introduced there, that was not the case, and family members still living on the edges of the park are not leading me to believe things are much different now.  For many years there were neither wolves nor an elk overpopulation problem.  There were local outfitters making a living on small, sustainable hunts in areas held by gentlemen&#8217;s agreements, and we had elk in the freezer.  (That was before a lot of newbies moved in and started having wholesale hunts.)  I remember growing up with animals in variety and abundance wandering through the yard, including lots of black bears, and co-existing with them peacefully, always respecting that it was their home first.  I truly understand that wolves, coyotes, mountain lions and the like need to eat; I just don&#8217;t believe in spreading fiction about it.  I remember when black bears started being killed and dumped in trenches inside the park, and were trapped and dropped from helicopters, and transported to sheep grazing areas outside the park, where they were killed by herders, and how adamant my mother was with the local game warden that they should leave the bears alone.  It wasn&#8217;t long before they were a rarity.  Now it&#8217;s pretty much just grizzly and bison (which were not in our area when I was growing up), and the occasional moose.  For awhile, elk numbers were way down &#8211; I don&#8217;t know what they are now, but then they were reporting huge numbers of elk in the northern herd, while there was not nearly enough sign in the back country for that many elk.  Just recently, I saw a piece on the news where the target numbers for elk keep being reduced, and I wonder what makes the land so much less able to sustain an elk population now than when I was little.  I also remember too well the fires of 1988 that they let burn as &#8220;natural,&#8221; when 11 of the 13 were set by man, and which, in a year dry enough that farmers in Powell were looking at water rationing early on, they let go until they almost destroyed my family home.  Thank heavens for snow in September that year.  Then they tried to tell people the fire didn&#8217;t do that much damage, and imposed restrictions on overflights so people couldn&#8217;t really see for themselves, and they closed and locked gates in some areas where they apparently didn&#8217;t want anybody to see the devastation.  I hiked to some of those spots &#8211; and it was gut-wrenching.  The last bear biologist I met knew zero about bears &#8211; or common courtesy &#8211; and I told her to get lost and leave the visiting grizzly bear alone.  The bear wasn&#8217;t bothering anything, and was due to move on of her own accord soon in quest of food for herself and her cubs, since she had found none with us.  The biologist was obnoxious, and much harder to get rid of.  Suffice it to say that many of the biologists/managers then had brand new degrees, no common sense, little experience with animals, and no interest in learning from those who had lived there all their lives.  If I am now skeptical of biologists and game managers with shiny new degrees and little field experience, I trust you will now understand why and forgive me.  Likewise, having lived in an area where much of the management was based on falsehoods that sounded good, but that the locals knew to be untrue, and having seen the unintended consequences, I am extremely hesitant to get involved in issues where I am not personally familiar with the facts.  I hope you will forgive that, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: skinned &#171; SHANNYN MOORE: JUST A GIRL FROM HOMER</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-177962</link>
		<dc:creator>skinned &#171; SHANNYN MOORE: JUST A GIRL FROM HOMER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-177962</guid>
		<description>[...] is Al Barrette? Mudflats wrote a great post that you can find here. Barrette, who has an obvious and unambiguous conflict of interest, cast the deciding vote to open [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is Al Barrette? Mudflats wrote a great post that you can find here. Barrette, who has an obvious and unambiguous conflict of interest, cast the deciding vote to open [...]</p>
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		<title>By: CrazyHorse</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-177898</link>
		<dc:creator>CrazyHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-177898</guid>
		<description>IndependentValley - 

I DO find the wolf noble, and believe they have just as much a right to live as any other animal.  I, too am VERY familiar with the Yellowstone situation, and it puts me squarely on the OTHER side of ranchers.  In fact, the ranchers are now up in arms about Elk moving off of Park land onto outside grazing land, as they suspect that Elk are the carrier of Brucellosis, not the bison.  I have also read Alston Chase&#039;s book, which was written in 1987 - 22 years ago!  You might have noted in his later book,  that he is just as much against unmanaged Elk/Deer populations as they will outgraze an area, destroying habitat for other animals and birds, as well as trees.  And guess what helps that problem???!!??  Wolves!  You need to bring yourself up to date.

As far as recent events in Denali, I will be writing to your governor, as I WAS planning on a trip to Denali this year . . . but not with this recent development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IndependentValley &#8211; </p>
<p>I DO find the wolf noble, and believe they have just as much a right to live as any other animal.  I, too am VERY familiar with the Yellowstone situation, and it puts me squarely on the OTHER side of ranchers.  In fact, the ranchers are now up in arms about Elk moving off of Park land onto outside grazing land, as they suspect that Elk are the carrier of Brucellosis, not the bison.  I have also read Alston Chase&#8217;s book, which was written in 1987 &#8211; 22 years ago!  You might have noted in his later book,  that he is just as much against unmanaged Elk/Deer populations as they will outgraze an area, destroying habitat for other animals and birds, as well as trees.  And guess what helps that problem???!!??  Wolves!  You need to bring yourself up to date.</p>
<p>As far as recent events in Denali, I will be writing to your governor, as I WAS planning on a trip to Denali this year . . . but not with this recent development.</p>
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		<title>By: ValleyIndependent</title>
		<link>http://www.themudflats.net/2010/03/09/parnell-administration-targets-wolves-and-alaskas-economy-time-to-howl/#comment-177885</link>
		<dc:creator>ValleyIndependent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.themudflats.net/?p=10481#comment-177885</guid>
		<description>Clarification, please.  On most local boards, appointees awaiting confirmation by elected officials are not sworn in and not allowed to vote.  Is this actually allowed here?

Secondly, since this decision is likely to impact his business directly, why did he not recuse himself?  Is there no procedure in place for the body to prevent someone with a conflict of interest from voting?

I do not know the area or the particulars well enough to take sides on the issue of the buffer zone, and after seeing what happened in Yellowstone thanks to large numbers of well-meaning, put poorly informed people who did not have to live with the consequences of the legislation they helped push through, suggest others not familiar with the particulars refrain as well, but from a civics standpoint, Barette&#039;s voting looks very wrong.

Disclosure:  I am no wolf fan.  I do not find them noble.  They will kill just for sport.  The process of harassing and bringing down an animal can literally take days, and I have some ocean front property in Arizona for those who really think they only kill the old and the sick.  Familiarity with the Yellowstone situation puts me on the side of the ranchers and critters like elk and moose.  I take exception to the word &quot;reintroduction,&quot; since there is no definitive evidence wolves were ever there in any number, and I am appalled by what has passed as &quot;science&quot; there and how much effort has gone into obfuscation of the facts to justify particular positions over the years.  It&#039;s an old book now, but I recommend reading Playing God in Yellowstone by Alston Chase for a better understanding of what has happened there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification, please.  On most local boards, appointees awaiting confirmation by elected officials are not sworn in and not allowed to vote.  Is this actually allowed here?</p>
<p>Secondly, since this decision is likely to impact his business directly, why did he not recuse himself?  Is there no procedure in place for the body to prevent someone with a conflict of interest from voting?</p>
<p>I do not know the area or the particulars well enough to take sides on the issue of the buffer zone, and after seeing what happened in Yellowstone thanks to large numbers of well-meaning, put poorly informed people who did not have to live with the consequences of the legislation they helped push through, suggest others not familiar with the particulars refrain as well, but from a civics standpoint, Barette&#8217;s voting looks very wrong.</p>
<p>Disclosure:  I am no wolf fan.  I do not find them noble.  They will kill just for sport.  The process of harassing and bringing down an animal can literally take days, and I have some ocean front property in Arizona for those who really think they only kill the old and the sick.  Familiarity with the Yellowstone situation puts me on the side of the ranchers and critters like elk and moose.  I take exception to the word &#8220;reintroduction,&#8221; since there is no definitive evidence wolves were ever there in any number, and I am appalled by what has passed as &#8220;science&#8221; there and how much effort has gone into obfuscation of the facts to justify particular positions over the years.  It&#8217;s an old book now, but I recommend reading Playing God in Yellowstone by Alston Chase for a better understanding of what has happened there.</p>
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