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April 25, 2014

Open Thread — Candlelight Memorial

Here is another photo sent by Jay and Kathy Cross. They drove by Rep. Giffords’ office in Tucson, Arizona after dark and saw this beautiful candlelight memorial to the victims of the shooting. Folks had been contributing to it throughout the day and in the candle glow, you can barely make out the outlines of photos, flowers and other items people brought.

The thoughts of the country rest with the victims and their families. Our thoughts are also with Jeanne and her family gathered on the East Coast preparing for her mom’s funeral. We wish peace for them all.

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168 Responses to “Open Thread — Candlelight Memorial”
  1. JUST A THOUGHT says:

    Thank you, B in Wasilla! Yes, people in Alaska can make a difference.

    Start in Wasilla, Sarah’s hometown. SHUT THIS WOMAN UP!

    She has become the “HITLER” of the 21st century!

  2. B in Wasilla says:

    I am going to post this link on any new stories about this shooting unless I get told to stop. I found these on the Internet attached to a Huffington Post article. I urge people to look through the available choices and to even read how you can have your own slogan printing virtually free

    http://www.antipalinshirts.com/

    The intelligent thoughtful people here in Alaska need to start doing whatever we can to SHUT Palin UP her mouth has finally gotten someone shot and people killed including a 9 year old girl.

    http://www.antipalinshirts.com/

    I live in Wasilla and I will be buying some as soon as I can. I will be displaying bumper stickers on my car and T-shirts on my body. I want her to SHUT UP and I believe that an open display of revulsion for her might get it through her thick unthoughtful head that real Alaskans DO NOT agree with her. She needs to finally realize what an embarrassment she is to herself, our town, our state and most of all, our entire Nation.

    http://www.antipalinshirts.com/

  3. auni says:

    Huffington post has an email from Beck to Palin–what a crock–he said” if there was a threat to you (Sarah) it would bring the republic down”. What????

    • Martha says:

      Palin is quick to respond to Beck’s e-mails and she and her staff are just as swift in deleting negative comments about her on her Facebook page.

      THIS is the comment that they DO leave up while at the same time, even removing subsequent comments complaining about this horrible, horrible remark.

      THIS is the essence of Palin and her followers:

      “It’s ok. Christina Taylor Green was probably going to end up a left wing bleeding heart liberal anyway. Hey, as ‘they’ say, what would you do if you had the chance to kill Hitler as a kid? Exactly.”

      Remember, Christina Taylor Green was the 9 year old girl killed by the shooter. Apparently she had been brought there by her mom, who thought she might get a kick out of meeting Rep. Giffords, having recently been elected to her student council.

      http://obamalondon.blogspot.com/2011/01/inexplicable-edits-on-sarah-palins.html

  4. Dagian says:

    One comment that I particularly noted (today’s Washingtonpst.com):

    vokesk51 wrote:
    This is a gutless response to the tragedy and yet another example of everything that’s wrong with our mainstream media.

    When Sarah Palin has Rep. Giffords’ district in crosshairs on her website and verbally encourages her supporters to lock and load, when the Congresswoman herself cites the depiction of the crosshairs image in literature emailed to her constituents and expresses concern about it, and then a few months later a mentally unstable person with a grievance, personal or political, seeks out the Congresswoman and guns her down, along with as many people assembled to meet with her as he can take, it’s an abdication of journalistic responsibility to say there isn’t a relationship.

    For a newspaper, of all possible entities, to effectively say that words have no effect on those who hear them is beyond lunacy. It’s bad enough the mainstream media is lumping criticism by the left in with the hate and racism spewing from the right, with calls for secession and armed resistance to a socialist President. Isn’t there anyone in the media anymore with a conscience about what they do for a living?

    Sarah Palin herself has acknowledged her culpability while trying to portray herself as a victim of the left – an insult to the real victims of this tragedy that has also gone unchallenged by the media. But she is now trying to back off her lock and load rhetoric by saying that wasn’t crosshairs on her website, just a little geographic notation of Rep. Giffords’ district.

    Palin’s inflammatory rhetoric in pursuit of a narcissistic political agenda has blown up (excuse the meaningless violent metaphor) in her face and now, instead of admitting she made a mistake, she’s outright lying about what she did.

    Did Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh call up Jared Lee Loughner and tell him to go to the Safeway and shoot Rep. Giffords? No. Does that mean they’re blameless? No. Hopefully poetic justice will do for the victims what real justice will never be able to do – end the careers of people like Palin, Beck and Limbaugh through the public refusing to buy the garbage they’re selling.
    1/10/2011 12:55:02 PM

  5. lilybart says:

    Palin’s ugliness, preserved in print and video, is now so off-putting, that I believe the threat of her is over. No matter if a direct link can be made or not, the attention to her past rhetoric is so off-putting now, she cannot recover from this.

    Without the reload schtick, she’s got nothin’.

    • ibwilliamsi says:

      I think that it is important for us to keep reminding people of the politicians and corporations that hitched their wagons to Sarah Palin’s star. She doesn’t have to be the one on the ballot, as was evidenced in November and in the Primaries. Make those people continue to defend or deny her – either way, don’t ever let people forget that these were the types of people who supported her until they didn’t. They either were poor judges or character or opportunists. Not the type of people we need making decisions for us.

  6. AKjah says:

    dreamgirl-thanks for the tunes. I am sittin here in my little corner of the world Wondering how to no give my money to the folks, who fund the folks, who talk hate. Which is tough to do at a local level.

  7. NEO says:

    Just wanted to give a big thank you to Diva and Shannyn for taking care of us while mom is gone.

  8. Xenon says:

    I have long said that something like this would happen…and sadly, it has come to pass.

  9. dreamgirl says:

    Al Queda , the IRA, the Red somethings in Italy….Basicallyterrorists…. all use hate language and ignorant, mal-adjusted or mentally ill people to carry out their “messages”.

    Whether by “dog whistle religious memes” or straight out “target memes” (Glen Beck, $arah Paylin, Bill O’Reilly… etc…) A call to arms? Well congratulations you f*ks: America is in mourning.

    Hey Sarah, was there a kickback?

    Words do mean something.

  10. CRFlats says:

    Alaskan show of support on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Facebook page. Please join us.
    http://www.facebook.com/GabrielleGiffords

  11. Lacy Lady says:

    After hearing all the reports on Cnn today, I don’t think we can change some people’s minds. The sheriff of Puma county made a statement, then a republican ( can’t remember his name) was on, saying the Sheriff was wrong in his take on what happened. This guy kept saying people are mad at the Government and what is going on and need to speak out & etc, and etc.
    These people have dug in their heels and are stubborn as a mule.
    I do think we all need to call or write our Senators and Congressmen and tell them it should start with them. They need to tone it down. . They can explain why they are for or against issues without tearing down people who are running against them.During a campaign, Ads should not be so vicious, and be honest. I remember writing to Senator Grassley when he made a statement about the health bill when he kept using the phrase “pull the plug on grandma”. I wrote and told him he should apoligize to the American people. He never did apoligize.
    Perhaps after what happend in arizona, he may think about what he says, or at least apoligize when he slips up?
    Just a thought!

  12. leenie17 says:

    There is something that struck me yesterday as I was following this story and I have not seen it mentioned in any of the coverage and conversations I’ve heard and read since the shooting (which could just mean that I’m completely out in left field!).

    There has been a determined effort by Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Breitbart and others of that mindset to paint the President and anyone who doesn’t agree with them as ‘enemies’ trying to destroy our country. I wonder if perceiving the Congresswoman as an ‘enemy’ made it that much easier for the shooter to justify her execution in his obviously disturbed mind. It has been reported that had tried to enlist in the military and was rejected, so he had intentions of pursuing that career path. Perhaps he thought of her, not as a Congresswoman, but as an enemy combatant that he needed to eliminate in a battle. And in war, it is an accepted, though regrettable, fact that innocent civilians may be injured or killed in the battle…hence the term ‘collateral damage’. Or maybe, because Giffords was an ‘enemy’, he saw everyone gathered to listen to her as enemies as well.

    Since Bush II it has been all too common for people to look upon those who disagree with them as enemies to be destroyed rather than fellow citizens with differing opinions. That will be another terrible legacy GWB and those who followed his example will leave to future generations, unless we can learn from this tragic incident.

  13. Baker's Dozen says:

    Have you seen what Lamar Alexander said today? When is he up for reelection? I’ll send money to almost anyone who runs against him. I say “almost” after seeing what happened with Alaska said, “Anyone but Murkowski.” But I’d go for Sylvester the Cat!

  14. As we leave the first decade of a new century I choose to think of it as the Bush/Cheney sell out of the nation. Now we enter the second decade will it be the Bi Polar decade? We have a great Pres. who just happened to enter history in 2008 and will his compassion and dream be totally wedged in between the madness we are experiencing? As another poster wrote “We will overcome”. Hope we live to see us do it. Thoughts and prayer fly south to Tucson and people there. We in Co. had two rifle scopes on her famous hit list.

  15. bluebanshee says:

    Amidst my grief and rage at this senseless violence I am wondering how to use this to help us as a nation move forward. I don’t want to spend any more time on Sarah Palin and the legion of hate-mongers. I want to those of us who care about non-violence and peacemaking to find a way to create a lasting memorial to those lost in this shooting and help build a better society in the future. Earlier on this thread someone said that the third-grader who was killed has become a daughter to all of us. Can we create a better legacy? I think we can. My first thoughts are about establishing some sort of scholarship in the names of Christina Taylor Greene and Gabriel Zimmerman (the 9 year old interested in politics and the Congressional aide just getting his start in public service), I would like this scholarship to be designed to encourage young people to pursue the study of politics and to think about government service as a career. I would also like to see some incorporation of the ideals of non-violent conflict resolution into this memorial scholarship. I haven’t really thought beyond this brief sketch — and would have to figure out the practicalities to make it happen. It is not the kind of thing I have ever attempted before but I think it is worth doing. Am I just a crazy dreamer? Or is there some way to bring this to fruition? Help me out here, mudpuppies — I really need you insight on this?

    • Baker's Dozen says:

      What a wonderful idea! I’d contribute. I don’t know how to set these up, but I’ve helped administer scholarships in the past. Nothing this big, though.

      I’d make one suggestion. Make it available, and obtainable, to those students typically in the middle of the pack as well. The outstanding achievers get a lot of scholarships, but this one should be based much more on character than grades, I think.

  16. mag the mick says:

    Last night, I wrote on my Facebook page that I am done being angry, and am now ready to organize. I am going to be looking at organizing a statewide march on Phoenix, calling on people to take back the hate. I don’t know if I can get people to actually march across Arizona, but at the least, we could all meet at the edges of Phoenix and march to the capital. Mudpups – organize something in your communities too! It’d be especially great to see an anti-hate rally in Anchorage or Wasilla. Call your senators and representatives tomorrow. Ask them to issue a statement condemning the level of hate in the country. Write letters to your paper. I think we can all do something here!

  17. SouthPaw says:

    Maybe it’s the codine in my cough medicine, but I just shutter to think if Palin had been the one shot in the head and her child killed. Now doubt the country would be in lock down as the tea baggers would be out there taking an eye for an eye. You can bet that Fox news would be on this 24/7 pouring gasoline on the fire and fanning the flames.

  18. By some chance ended up in conversation with a fairly conservative young man twice today, once on shuttle to the airport and was surprised to run into him again at a different airport while waiting for our next flights. He reads Glenn Beck and admires Sarah Palin – we probably talked for about 5 hours total about politics and American history – He mentioned that the shootings were ‘part of America’s way’ of creating social change, but was quick to reconsider when we put the whole thing in context, especially in reference to the child that died. I didn’t panic when he made the statement and would like to think that he will think more carefully about his words in the future. It seems too many people are quick to say such things without really understanding the significance of their words. Hoping that each individual conversation will loosen these terrible bonds of divisiveness that are holding our American process hostage.
    Glad to be able to comment here at times like this.

  19. aussiegal77 says:

    An awful weekend for families across America. Just hope this is the turning of the tide. Enough with the hate to each other. Enough of Sarah Palin. Please, God, let her just go back to Wasilla and just stay out of politics.

  20. JUST A THOUGHT says:

    It is my sincere hope that Fox News will remove Sarah Palin from their staff.

    Listening to the brave father and mother talk about their beautiful childl, broke

    my heart. My tears are still flowing. Sarah Palin, your words of hate took

    the life of a beautiful child. I hope you remember that each time you look at

    your daughter Piper. Piper will grow up and realize her dreams. Your careless

    use of words, as you toured the country and spread hate, caused a very sick

    man to pull the trigger. An innocent child is dead. She wanted to learn about her

    government. She wanted to learn and give back to her community. Why, Sarah, why?

    • lilybart says:

      They won’t. That would be admitting there is something wrong. This is the only place for her.

      But even they may just let her contract expire.

  21. Baker's Dozen says:

    Even the Christian Science Monitor has an image of Palin’s “reload” rifle scope page. When you hit a paper that’s as even handed and not into sensationalism as the Monitor, that’s saying something.
    They’re not saying that Palin influenced the shooter, but they are talking about violent discourse.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0109/Vitriol-in-political-rhetoric-Did-it-play-a-part-in-the-Arizona-shooting/(page)/2

    • BS says:

      Interesting post over there. Live by the facebook – die by the facebook.

    • barbara says:

      i’m sure it is true. i imagine her Pac pays someone 24/7 to monitor and remove all posts that are not kowtowing to sowah. it has been pointed out before and i believe is worth repeating that while most public comments deplored the violence, palin’s did not. she wouldn’t even go that far.

  22. dreamgirl says:

    Moose Pucky,”Carrying a candle in my heart for all who suffer”, me too. I’ll also light a few in my heart for those who died.

  23. ks sunflower says:

    My apologies if I am repeating information that has already been posted.

    However, in case you wish to light a virtual candle and post a message that will be shared with the families of the lost and with those who were wounded, go to:

    http://act.truemajorityaction.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=159

    Over 15,000 candles are lit already. Please consider adding another.

  24. Martha says:

    Tell Sarah Palin: Violent threats have consequences

    Sarah Palin has a special responsibility and opportunity in the wake of the attempted assassination of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. For it was Sarah Palin and Sarah Palin alone who earlier put the crosshairs of a gun on Rep. Giffords. And so far, Palin’s response has been Facebook prayers for the victims and an official denial that her widely distributed map involved gun sights at all. This is obscene duplicity at best.

    Let us be clear. We do not know why the shooter targeted Rep. Giffords. Sarah Palin did not arm him or pull the trigger. We do not know if the shooter admired, loathed or ignored Sarah Palin. We will eventually know, and that will be a different accounting.

    But only Sarah Palin put 20 Democratic members of Congress in her crosshairs, and only Sarah Palin bragged that 18 are now gone, leaving Rep. Giffords and Rep. Nick Rahall of West Virginia.

    Tell Sarah Palin: Renounce use of shooting images in political rhetoric immediately, and stop using your platform to promote and validate violent calls to action on the right.

    The petition reads:
    “Threats of violence have no place in our democracy. Renounce the use of shooting images in political rhetoric immediately, and stop using your platform to promote and validate violent calls to action on the right.”

    http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/palin_violence/index2.html?rc=tw2

  25. angiemomma says:

    “Sniper targets on maps, talk of revolution and taking our country back, “Don’t retreat, instead reload,” sexually charged attacks against her critics, the omnipresent use of violence on her reality show, with all of this Sarah Palin has created a brand that is all about punishment and destruction.” -Gryphen, Immoral Minority.

  26. Moose Pucky says:

    Carrying a candle in my heart for all who suffer.

  27. Sarafina says:

    I am so impressed by the courage of Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik. I googled him, and sent an email to the address on the website.

    I agree with his opinion on the lamentable level of hatred in common discourse, and I told him I support him as he is unmercifully attacked by the right wing in the coming days.

  28. ibwilliamsi says:

    When the Tea Party stops spouting violent rhetoric, we will stop pointing it out.

    • Moose Pucky says:

      Local teaparty gathering in the slough had a child holding a poster. “Don’t like the way things are? There is a solution.” (with an image of a noose) It was attended by local school board members.

  29. St. Elias says:

    What really is so sad for me here is the perception many people appear to espouse, that it is okay to kill others who don’t happen to agree with their political or theological ideology. For some time now, many have been concerned over the dangers inherent in the proliferation of this “tongue in cheek” rhetoric. The whack jobs out there abound, it was just a matter of time. Palin’s candidate’s, Jesse Kelly, add went hand in hand with Palin’s “bull’s-eye” crusade. Now a little third grade girl pays the ultimate price. Sarah, you finally reaped what you sowed.

    http://yfrog.com/h5p7wp

    • North of the Range says:

      You’re right, it was only a matter of time before someone took these subliminal suggestions that were planted deeply in our discourse and acted upon it. This should not be rocket science to any political leader with the slightest comprehension of human nature (which is, after all, their stock in trade, right?)

      The campaign message consultants and professional rabble-rousers who intentionally put these messages into circulation have years of Madison Avenue insights into applied behavioral psychology at their disposal. If they didn’t want to tap into anger and violent fantasies in their messaging they had the skill and the clear moral choice not to do it. They knew what they were unleashing. They knew these messages can trigger the easily manipulated nutcases who walk among us, especially if they’re heard over and over again. For them to feign ignorance is the central lie at the bottom of this tragedy.

      And for politicians who perhaps did not create the messages directly, but approved them and benefited from their use? They are complicit in these unpatriotic, damaging choices, or they are manipulated fools themselves. Either way, they have no business leading us.

      If the horrifying events yesterday bring any possible redemption with them, it may be that people who are being swept up in this manufactured madness may be shocked into realizing that violent rhetoric breeds actual violence, against actual innocent people.

    • leenie17 says:

      I was continually amazed at the stories of campaigns in the last two elections that used gun and shooting-related images in their advertisements. Living in a large city in western NY, there was not much of that thing in local campaigns, but I remember being shocked at the number of television ads I saw mentioned in the news that featured candidates shooting weapons, sometimes in an aggressive, threatening manner.

      I saw part of an interview of Gabby Giffords yesterday where she talked about how she and her colleagues, some of whom have been in Congress twice as long as she, had been dismayed at the temendous increase in violence used as part of mainstream political campaigns in the past few years. Never before do I remember so many implied threats of violence being used – and accepted – as part of a political campaign.

  30. slipstream says:

    Mark Begich’s statement condemned this violence.
    Lisa Murkowski’s statement condemned this violence.
    Don Young’s statement condemned this violence.
    Sarah Palin’s statement . . . didn’t.

    • ks sunflower says:

      Her silence and inability to empathize is probably the harshest indictment of Sarah Palin. She doesn’t seem to have the capacity to understand and relate to others and their problems and losses. She seems totally wrapped up in herself. It would be sad if it didn’t have such a tragic context.

  31. Judychicago says:

    Many sites still refer to the victims as “the others”. Hope no one minds if I type their names here to honor them.

    U.S. District Judge John Roll, 63.
    Gabe Zimmerman, 30, Giffords’ director of community outreach.
    Dorwin Stoddard, 76, a pastor at Mountain Ave. Church of Christ.
    Christina Greene, 9, a student at Mesa Verde Elementary.
    Dorthy Murray, 76.
    Phyllis Scheck, 79.

    I don’t want to type about palin anymore. I’m done. THESE people deserve their names to be seen. Not palin.

    • NOLA says:

      Judy, thank you. I was just reading about them on msnbc.com. All of these innocents deserve to be remembered.

    • fishingmamma says:

      Thank you for that.

    • Mo says:

      Yes, thank you, Judy. I wanted to know who the others are.

    • OMG says:

      Thank you for your post.

    • bubbles says:

      thank you Judychicago. i concur.

    • thatcrowwoman says:

      May their memories be for a blessing….

    • ks sunflower says:

      Thank you so very much! I had not yet seen a listing and had been lamenting how the media was focused on the easy categories: the Representative, the Judge, the Child. Of course those create the most emotional impact and I understand why they are chosen to create the most “news value,” but I am grateful to see all the others being remembered. Their lives were just as important.

      I also think the wounded should be remembered because their lives and the lives of their friends and family will never be the same. Aside from any lingering physical impairments from their injuries, the psychological damage will be lifelong for everyone. We, as mere observers, have been impacted as well.

      I really hope the wild rhetoric gets dialed-back permanently. We need and deserve a better social and political climate than we’ve had for the past decade and more.

    • dreamgirl says:

      Thanks Judy, I’m finding it hard to read up on all this just now. The names just makes it all more real and final. This really happened.

      I’m not a relative of any, yet feel related. This is overwhelming.

    • leenie17 says:

      I also would like to recognize Daniel Hernandez, Congresswoman Giffords’ intern, who, in the midst of the shooting, ran TOWARDS the Congresswoman, hoping to help the victims. It has been reported that his quick response and attention to her wounds may have saved her life. He had only been an intern in her office for five days before the incident.

      The people who tackled the shooter and prevented him from hurting or killing more victims have also been identified: Patricia Maisch, Roger Salzgeber, Bill Badger and Joseph Zamudio. Since he was in the process of inserting another magazine into his weapon, many more people could have been hurt or killed if not for the actions of these brave individuals.

  32. Judychicago says:

    Having a real hard time focusing today. Lots to do, but my mind just won’t stop jumping around. I keep seeing that little girls face, Christina Taylor Green. She is not my daughter, but it doesn’t matter. I am so sad today. So very sad.

    • TX SMR says:

      Maybe she is a daughter to all of us today.

      Today I thought about how I took my two girls to rallies during the 2008 election cycle. Sometimes the drive-by people were rude, sometimes rude people mingled, but mostly it was such a blessing to be with like-minded positive people. I remember vividly my toddler and a beautiful African-American little girl waving their little bitty Obama signs. Our oldest was a teen then, and her sign was a bit snarky toward SP, but I have to admit it was me that made the sign! It was wonderful to see her engaged politically & in such an historic moment.

      And today I also thought about how awful things have become, in terms of political rhetoric and violence, since then. How it could have been a rally that this happened at, and one of my daughters that was injured or killed, and would I let that keep me away from those sorts of things in the future, particularly now that I live in TX…

      After much thought about the arc of history and the politics of fear I decided that I would go to rallies, bring my daughters, continue to wave my signs with Gandhi quotes (or anti-SP verbiage if she is still on the scene). I will not let the bullies or the haters make me afraid, and I hope that others will as well.

      As I said in my comments here yesterday, I hope that something good can come of all of this sadness, that the victims will be beacons, ushering in a new era of hope, tolerance & peace for the US.

      • tigerwine says:

        “Maybe she is a daughter to all of us today”

        TXSMR – what a beautiful thought.

      • Lilith says:

        I took my daughter to many anti-war and other protests in DC when she was quite young. Among our family stories is the fact that she had been tear-gassed at least 3 times by the time she was six. Ironically one of those times was while we were listening to music at the Folklife Festival; the gas came from Park Police chasing pot smoking “hippies” down the Mall .

        There were many tense moments in those days, by I never thought of real violence happening at the marches and protests we attended. I still don’t really, and hope some day to introduce (future) grandchildren to political activism. Random is random in many ways, and I hope tragedies like this do not inhibit families from involving their children in the political and social life of our communities. Just as I hope our elected representatives remain open and available to the people who elect them.

      • Sarafina says:

        Here’s some gallows humor: Maybe Arizona is beating Texas in the Craziest Whacko Nutjob State Contest!!!!

        (Don’t tell anyone, the natives here will feel compelled to do something even worse.)

    • A fan from CA says:

      (((((Judy))))))

  33. Terpsichore says:

    Been awhile since I posted. Have been reading and following along, but got very busy with school, and a show. Now the Winter semester starts and two more shows on the horizon, I can say that hopey-changey thing is working out very well, thank you.

    SP’s last book tour was a non-event, her TV show will not be renewed, and you can bet Fox News is going to keep her from yapping on-camera until they can feed her the story she’s supposed to tell regarding this tragedy. I don’t think her reputation can recover. No country can afford a President who does not choose his or her words carefully (at all times) and refuses accept the fact that their words DO have power and consequences, and accept the responsibility of those consequences.

    I doubt even she will have the nerve to run for President now, and if she did, she’d be out of the race within months of the announcement.

    But, I’ve been wrong before. She has shown in the past that that’s what she does have a lot of – nerve.

  34. AIO says:

    Limbaugh still thinks that Palin should be President.

  35. thatcrowwoman says:

    Mavis Staples: You Are Not Alone

    The Band and The Staples: The Weight

    Pete Seeger: We Shall Overcome

    *and the worldwide mudflats chorus sings along, with feeling*
    “We are not afraid today…”

    L’Shalom,
    thatcrowwoman

    • I took my young daughter to the Folk Life Festival in Seattle a number of years ago to hear Pete Seeger in person. It was fantastic to be in an audience that knew all the protest songs that I knew. The minute that we give in to fear and quit attending rallies or speaking up, the crazy people win. It’s really more important now than ever that we continue to show up and engage in real conversation. But the first step is to get people who lack an ability to filter their own speech to stop what they have been doing. It’s not just Palin, but I consider her to be one of the worst. Bachmann, Angle, Brewer and all of them need to prove they are grown up enough to appear in public.

  36. SouthPaw says:

    This is worth the time it takes to read:

    A Method to Republican ‘Madness’

    http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/033110.html

    “The same two elements – tearing down a Democratic president and creating a sense of political havoc – are again at the center of Republican strategy, except that today the GOP is even better placed to carry out a repeat than the party was in 1994. Then, there was no Fox News dominating the cable TV ratings and the right-wing media was far less developed than it is today.”

    The pattern continues…the Republicans have never been made to pay a political price for their scheming to undercut sitting Democratic presidents and to grease the GOP’s route back to power. Whenever a Democrat is in the White House, the Republicans believe they are free do whatever they want to block him from solving national problems, making him look weak and ineffectual.

    That was true of Johnson, Carter, Clinton and now Obama.

    This GOP strategy is pursued even if it tarnishes the international image of the United States or if it undermines national security, even if it means more than 20,000 additional U.S. soldiers dying in Vietnam, or 52 American hostages facing longer captivity in Iran, or the likes of Timothy McVeigh feeling empowered to blow up a federal building.

    The strategy continues even if it raises the current threat level against President Obama and Democratic lawmakers. The strategy continues because it works.

    • A fan from CA says:

      Fear, fear and more fear. That’s the whole GOP message. And now Faux is on 24/7 dishing out fear of everything Obama.

      A while ago I started asking R’s why they are so afraid. Call out the fear. Let them discuss it and then guide them to more adult thinking about whatever. They are just like children, they need guidance in understanding how to face their fears.

    • jojobo1 says:

      The question is how long will Liberals , independents aaand moderate republicans who see thru the GOP far right keep turning the other cheek.

    • I pray for republicans to fail, as the lesser limbaugh wished our president to fail….

  37. DF says:

    I must drive by the murder scene today on the way to a Tucson Symphony concert. I look forward to some wonderful classical music and any comments by our TSO director George Hanson. George Hanson was director of the Anchorage Symphony for several years and was quite appreciated by myself and many others in that community. He has been here in Tucson now for several years and I’m sure is at least acquainted with Gabrielle Giffords.

    I will post (as a Reply to this post) any observations later today.

    As I mentioned in my Post in Shannon’s Reload article, I live in Gifford’s district and this incident happened only 3 miles from my home.

    • TX SMR says:

      My sister-in-law & brother-in-law live in Tucson. My husband & I talked with them last night about this. She is their congresswoman as well, my b-i-l met her at an event at the uni where he teaches, said she’d thanked him for riding his bike to work/event (he had his helmet w/him) — she is engaged that way.

      They do feel more peace in their new home near the university, said that their old home, a few miles from where the shooting occurred, was in a neighborhood that was pretty red, which is not how they are (they lived there for about 20 years).

      I was further saddened to read the comment from a Dish reader (Andrew Sullivan) that they’d been in line at a store when this happened, and couples in front of him/her were talking about now being able to put a Republican in Gifford’s seat. This person is a soldier and said something along the lines of “is this what I am fighting for?” I have sadness beyond words for all that has happened and all that has led us to this point.

      Lucky you going to the symphony. May the beauty of the music bring you peace & comfort.

      • jojobo1 says:

        And arn’t we luck we have a soldier that would ask that question at that time and in the context of what was said.Although I wondered the same thing just because palin moved there and I figured she was going to carpet bag her way in maybe thru McCain,never thought about someone being shot.palin would probably say it was Gods work and take advantage of whatever the outcome.I would hope the people of AZ TB repub or dems would have repudiated this shooting instead of saying they would gain a republican seat.This woman is alive and so far doing as well as can be expected.May God keep watch over her and all that were hurt and killed in AZ Saturday. May God close the door on anything the palin family wants to do in AZ.

    • TX SMR says:

      And I wonder if you are fortunate enough to know my super fantastic in-laws… They are an amazing couple…

    • DF says:

      I am back from the Tucson Symphony concert. Maybe some of you will remember George Hanson when he was Director of the Anchorage Symphony — perhaps in the 90s, as I recall. He’s now the lauded Director here and has been for many years. He returned to Anchorage as guest director in December 2009 and, in chatting with him, I think he misses that community very much but also loves Tucson.

      Today’s concert included 2 Mozart pieces that most classical fans might be familiar with. Serenade K525 started out the program to give the audience an “escapist” feeling! Hanson waited to address the audience after the Serenade — by the way, he did this very program first on Saturday evening just hours after the 10AM incident at Safeway. When he spoke to us, he stated that Gabrielle (Gabby) Giffords was a “friend” to TSO. She had called just last week to order a CD by the TSO for her husband to take into space. He said that the astronaut’s intent was to “bring it back”, which Hanson thought humorous.

      The second piece played by the orchestra was written by their resident composer. It was highly dissonant and reminded us of the discord in our community and the world.

      The final part of the program was the second Mozart piece, Symphony No 40 in G minor, K550, also familiar to classical audiences. This is highly passionate and certainly doesn’t teach us much at all about anger management — in fact, it allows us to let it all hang out! It was a good way to end the concert.

      A few observations/comments that might be interesting:

      The parking lot at Safeway remains under investigation and is closed to the public. Many vehicles were parked alongside the road and tv crews were still on site. This is such an eerie picture when you take in the backdrop of the beautiful Catalina Mtns. The banners associated with Giffords rally are removed.

      A friend of mine missed the beginning of the rally (she is a strong advocate for Gabby) because another friend of mine had just sent her some photos online to review. She typically shops at Safeway on Saturday morning. I’m not a regular customer per se.

      It turns out that I had a brush with the perpetrator last spring at the University of AZ Bookfest. I remember him because he stood next to that large crossword puzzle at the UA. We walked by him a couple of times and I remember his white clothes and constant smile.

      Gabe, Gifford’s aide who was killed, has done presentations on solar energy at our home shows. We attended one of those sessions about a year ago.

      The child who was killed had accompanied an adult friend to the rally. She was interested in Gabrielle Giffords because she had just taken a school “council” job. A nurse and doctor who had admininstered aid to the injured remembered that the friend had asked the parents to be notified. I’m interested in the full story on this because of the many details surrounding her life and death. One thing I have learned is that she was born on 9-11-2001.

      Well, we are hoping for the best for our Gabrielle Giffords and all those who were injured. This incident has touched us in so many ways as you can tell. I’m thankful that The Mudflats is a place that I can post my thoughts and feelings.

      • dreamgirl says:

        Thank you for your update. I’m sure the music was profound this evening.

        I am so saddened by these untimely deaths especially the 9 yr old girl. They all had so much to give and live for.

        I’ll also add my prayers to the injured for speedy recoveries and love to all the families and friends involved.

      • leenie17 says:

        It’s truly amazing how music, even that which was written hundreds of years ago, can touch our emotions so deeply and help us to heal. I am sure that being together and sharing that experience was a comfort to the musicians and the audience alike.

        The entire community of Tucson is in my thoughts and prayers tonight.

  38. Judychicago says:

    Watching Face the Nation and the discussion of igniting violence was introduced with Palin’s map.

    • Laurie says:

      She will never be able to separate herself from the map with gun sights and her signature on it.

      • Ben in SF says:

        I make a lot of maps — in 16+ years I have never used a cross-hairs is as a location marker. A “professional” cartographer (whom she claims was responsible for the graphic) would know the power of the symbol and its use was certainly intentional.

        I DO use the same, basic symbol on the margins of full-color, printed maps as “registration mark” to ensure the plates line up on the printing press. So perhaps Sarah was just sayin’ how important it is for Amurkins to “register” to vote? Ha!

        • leenie17 says:

          Having worked with a printer years ago, I can say with complete confidence that, if those marks show up in the MIDDLE of your graphic, you’ve got a serious registration problem on your hands and your customer likely isn’t going to be paying your bill!

        • Zyxomma says:

          In the early 1970s, I was a draftsman at a large engineering firm. We had a huge government contract following the 1972 floods in PA and elsewhere (Hurricane Agnes). For a program of federal flood insurance, standardized maps were needed, first of every incorporated area in the US that might be flood-prone, then (when we were well along in that project) we got the contract for the unincorporated areas, too (I was famous for my “spaghetti” maps, of all the places that had nothing but loopy, winding roads, many of which I copied from Alaska maps that were aerial photos with street names written on the roads). Standardized map-making is kind of boring: tracing onto linen in Rapidograph, using graphic tape so all borders, rights-of-way, railroads, etc. are identical on each map. NO room for creativity till the job’s over.

          I’m totally familiar with registration marks, and $P’s crosshairs are NOT registration marks. She’s an effin’ liar, and not even a good one.

          • Zyxomma says:

            Leroy lettering, also, too. Big bore. And this was in the days before the flexible curve was invented; we had to use French curves. To copy the graphic tape designs onto areas too small and curvy to cut the tape in with an Exacto, I put lines of the tape onto my triangles (and some of the curves) so I’d get the proportions exactly right.

            The supervisor, Larry, was asked by management why my maps were the only ones in the department that were never sent back for corrections. I found him behind me at the drafting table one day (I thought he was trying for a look up my miniskirt). He was watching me work. When he saw what I’d done with the graphic tape, he called out to the entire room, and had everyone copy what I’d done, instructing everyone to put lines of graphic tape onto their triangles. I set a precedent.

      • GoI3ig says:

        Amen to that. She needs to take ownership of that map. Imagine if the script was flipped and the cross hairs were on her house. She would be going bonkers.

    • A fan from CA says:

      Thanks for the site. I had no idea this much violent rhetoric is coming out of our politicians mouths.

      • Watch Fox news…. Glenn Beck will scare the bejesus out of you….He should be locked up. This sort of violent behavior can be laid right at the feet of Fox news and the garbage they spew. If folks watch Fox all day long, I’m not surprised at all, that they get people scared to death.

  39. Shadow's Heart says:

    Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with ME!!

    • merrycricket says:

      Amen to that.

    • ks sunflower says:

      Yes, even though it is more difficult than ever to remain calm and reflective.

      I remember reading Jessamyn West’s “The Friendly Persuasion” about a Quaker family and its struggle to follow Christian principles of non-violence during the Civil War, and realizing to my horror that I understood the eldest son’s decision – not agreed with, but understood it. That alone scared me that I might follow in his footsteps to defend hearth and home even though my faith told me I could or should not. You know, that pesky “Thou shalt not kill” that didn’t have any asterisks providing exceptions. Yes, I have been a pacifist – albeit a struggling one – all these years since.

      That book brought home to me as a young teen the profound conflict between the desire to protect those you love and the principles you cherish and the equally as strong desire to do what is right according to your spiritual beliefs. That the book was published just after WWII, also increased its value to me.

      So, though it is not always easy to be peaceful, the greater the provocation, the greater the need to do just that. I can only hope that peace prevails now because the provocations are increasing.

    • jojobo1 says:

      Hope all is well with you Shadow’s Heart

  40. Marnie says:

    This was my post in Huff Po about Sarah’s statement of sympathy for Giffords and her family

    “It is unlikely that Sarah actually wrote that.
    More likely it was RAM or one of Sarah’s employees, under pressure from the public to make some kind of statement,
    Sarah is never that well spoken, and is virtually incapable of speaking without vituperativeness.

    Hours after all decent feeling persons, and politicians also too, had spoken out, Sarah still could not bring herself to condemn this act of political violence,

    If she does not refudiate the murders and attempted assassination then it must be assumed that she condones them.

    In absence of their refudiation we must assume that Sarah, Bachmann, Angle et al condone the murder of a 9 year old as acceptable collateral damage in their self righteous war on Americans.”

    The Republicans and Tea Baggers and preachers who have used the rhetoric of violence must now repudiate their words and cease using those allusions or be forever associated with the death of innocent men women and children and the attempted assassination of a member of our national legislature.

    Gravely at threat is the freedom of Americans to exercise their first Amendment right of free assembly, for fear that they will fall victim to political violence from their fellow Americans.

    Gravely at threat is the expectation that elected politicians will be free to speak in open assemblies for fear of violence and even of their lives.

    Preaching to the choir, at caged political rallies, and being inaccessible to speak openly with the public and to answer their questions and address their concerns face to face will widen and make permanent the chasm that is being dug between political factions in this country.

    Even the WH with its continued insulting and belittling of it base feeds the angers and divisiveness that is now consuming our country.

    • Elizabeth says:

      Sarah and those like her can’t be allowed to get away with “my condolences” or even repudiation (lets start using that word again). They have to change their ways.

    • ks sunflower says:

      Please explain your statement “Even the WH with its continued insulting and belittling of it [sic] base . . ..” because I do not understand your contention, and would appreciate having it put it into context. Surely you do not mean that our calm, carefully spoken President has been responsible for stirring up the hate that manifested itself in such a devastating way yesterday. If you have examples of his “insulting and belittling” rhetoric, please share them because I must have missed them and need to educated about them.

      I understand that many progressives (including myself) are disappointed that President Obama has not yet fulfilled some of his campaign promises (e.g., shutting down GITMO and the secret prisons overseas, etc.) or compromised on some issues we felt were important (e.g., single payer health care), but I have not felt that our President has been continually insulting or belittling his base.Simply because things are not happening as quickly as I would like or that we didn’t get everything we wanted in just the form we wanted is not an attack against us.

      Candidate Obama spoke about rigorous reforms, but if you researched him, you quickly realized he was (and is) at heart a centrist, someone who truly believes in consensus.

      It is telling that those around him who took advantage of those traits to slow down his agenda (Emmanuel and Gibbs) are leaving even though President Obama is not demonstrating any anger or frustration against them. I do not think it is his character to blithely belittle or insult. If you have examples with which to enlighten me, please share them because I do not wish to be living in a fool’s paradise. I want to learn.

      If I have misunderstood your comment, please forgive me. I do not wish to be someone who defends someone in a knee-jerk manner. If he deserves criticism, then so be it. However, I simply am not aware of any “insulting or belittling.”

      • NOLA says:

        KS, I agree with you about the last sentence in Marnie’s post. I understand and agree with everything else, but I didn’t quite understand the last bit, etiher. I know the pres. has shown a bit of annoyance with the left recently, but I never took his meaning to be belittling or to have a violent bent.

        I think some of what it may be, not to speak for Marnie at all, but this is just my take… is that a lot of people are trying to be careful not to point fingers at one side only. While I think it wise to take a hard look at the language of both sides, I don’t think the example of his “belittling his base” is quite right in this debate. Just my opinion, of course.

        • ks sunflower says:

          I agree, NOLA, that there seems to be a desire to “be fair,” and there were Republicans and some pundits this morning on the political analysis shows saying that violent language comes from both sides of the aisle. I just want them to point out examples. It may be that I am blind and deaf to any progressive “violence” (language or actions), but I really do want it pointed out to me.

          I am relieved it wasn’t just me reacting to that last sentence. I don’t think Marnie meant to be provocative, and I think we could all benefit from examples.

          • NOLA says:

            If for no other reason than to make sure we are not part of the problem. I think it is definitely time for EVERYONE to take a step back and look at how we speak and write. I can’t recall ever wishing harm on another person, especially over political ideology, but if I have, then I need to change that. We all do, regardless of which side of the aisle you fall.

          • A fan from CA says:

            Agreed. I am not familiar with examples of Progressive/Liberal “violence”.

            Perhaps Chris Mathews or Rachel will get to ask this question next week to some of those making this type of comment.

          • Are republicans taking responsibility for any of their talk?????

          • c.j. says:

            I did hear a ‘talking head’ on CNN this Sunday claim that our President said “If they bring a knife, I’ll bring a gun.” Now this is a line by Sean Connery in the “Untouchables’. Perhaps When being so severely critisized for allowing the Repubs. to win every issue he might have quoted this line???
            Also the claims of lefty violence were drawn from the 70′s and SDS, anti war activists I think mostly our President has been defensive, demoralized and shattered by everything. Look at the grey in his hair, the lines in his face. Now has he been snippy? Perhaps. Who would blame him? But really, does it go as far as inciting violence?

      • Millie says:

        Don’t forget that he got more done in his first two-year period than any other President in spite of everything he was up against in Congress.

        • ks sunflower says:

          Exactly!

          I am so proud of President Obama all things considered. We need more politicians who can stay calm, see the long-term impacts, and the Big Picture. President Obama makes the short-term, in-it-for-the-fame-or-money political hacks look so tacky and shameful. We are so lucky to have someone who moderates his speech and conduct to promote civil discourse.

      • Califpat says:

        KS Sunflower: I agree!! I must have missed that too!!

      • I did not care for that sentence as well.

    • bubbles says:

      Marnie….hmmm. where have i seen you pop up before? you sound so familiar somehow. oh well maybe it will come to me or someone else. at the moment i think i will just let you stew in your own juices. anyone got any carrots or potatoes? onions? thyme? salt or pepper?

      • ks sunflower says:

        Bubbles, we love you! You gave me a reason to smile and even giggle. Thanks. That was no small feat given the overall tone of the weekend. Thank you!

      • Marnie says:

        I came to the flats in Sept or Oct of 08, met Shannyn and AKM in Pittsburg, send in a post and photos of Sarah’s cold snowy book signing in Fairfax. I commented regularly until last March.
        Like AustinTex and a few others I got caught in the span filter had have been there for about nine months. Both Snoskred and AKM have tried to get my email address freed but were not able to do so. I now do not see the repost page but the site closes when I post.
        Taht means that I can read or I can post but no both at the same time. It is often hours before my post go up, so I cannot be a part of an active conversation anymore, or I would be as I had been.

        I clearly remember the WH referring to the left, liberals, progressives as retarded, and we are repeatedly being reminded, lase week was the last I remeber hearing, that we have to vote for Obama in 2014, because we “will have no place else to go.”

        I personally find that insulting and divisive, as I do your snark.

        • ks sunflower says:

          Marnie, I apologize if you felt we were being snarky towards you. Bubbles would not do that, she was just lightening the mood a bit. I was delighted with her phrasing about the food metaphor, that’s all.

          As to your example, that you for posting two, but I believe it wasn’t the WH that called the progressives retarded, it was Chief of Staff, Rahm Emmanuel, who said an privately called a group of liberal activists “f—ing retarded” because a small group of them were planning to attack conservative Democrats who were against the health care reform package. He explained he was worried that doing so would alienate the conservative Dems who might still vote to support the bill. His use of the word prompted Sarah Palin’s attack on him for using “retard” which was followed by her attack on South Park for using a Down’s Syndrome character using the word and then Sarah ignoring Rush Limbaugh’s repetitious use of the word in one of his rants. It was a moment to be regretted, but Rahm did apologize to the group and to Sarah. As you know, Rahm is no longer the Chief of Staff. It really marked the beginning of the end for him in that position even if he eventually decided to run for the Mayor of Chicago.

          As for 2014, the next Presidential election is scheduled for 2012. As for “having no other place to go,” there are always other candidates – I cannot remember an election where only one Democrat ran for the nomination. I think what Press Secretary Gibbs meant was that if you want someone as progressive as President Obama, you will be hard-pressed to find them, even amongst other Democrats (with the exception of more leftish Dems such as Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, who, realistically would be unelectable).

          Again, let me state that I am sorry if you felt insulted. It was not my intention, and though I should not speak for bubbles, I feel pretty safe in vouching for her. We did perhaps respond with humor that crossed the line, but I don’t either of us intended to insult you. If we caused you discomfort, I am sorry. It will not happen again.

          • ks sunflower says:

            oops – typo due to poor editing on my part.

            Should have said, ” . . . Emmanuel, who privately called (made the comment in private, not publicly) a group of liberal activists . . . . ”

            Someone leaked his private comment, voiced in anger over his perception that their plans would undermine the vote for the bill.

        • bubbles says:

          oh. yesssss. now i remember. hmmmmmm. pity.

          • bubbles says:

            ….sorry little Sunflower, but yes, i did mean what i said. i intended to insult and make uncomfortable. it is one thing to to make a mistake in referencing something some one supposedly said but to throw the nasty mot into an otherwise thoughtful comment that you have already posted on an international blog then come back with an attitude and say you thought the President of the United States had insulted his own base. he had not, in fact, done any such thing. Marnie i don’t care if you are insulted. no wonder Spam Filter doesn’t think much of you. neither do i.

    • I completely disagree with your last sentence….it is way off…! Unless you are a lover of Fox, and that’s the sort of thing they enjoy….Fox ‘news’ is on a different planet…completely..!

  41. London Bridges says:

    The nine year old girl who was murdered was born on September 11, 2001.

    The YouTube videos which may have been produced by the alleged shooter made references to the constitution. Watching TV coverage of Congress’ mindless reading of the constitution, using it to incite others, may have set the shooter over the edge.

    What have we become?

  42. Smokey Mountain Blue says:

    Thanks Thatcrowwoman. I am depressed this morning that our society cannot seem to learn. I have lived through Jonh F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King. Through the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11.
    Today I am grieving for the parents of an innocent nine year old child who was curious about politics. Grieving for the grandchildren who will never be able to sit in the lap of their grandfather again, the man who was an outstanding judge. Grieving for the children whose Mom, a congresswoman, will probably never be the same again, providing that she in fact lives. I grieve for those whose names I do not know, but who lost their lives in such a senseless manner.

    • Smokey Mountain Blue says:

      And now this:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/westboro-baptist-church-arizona_n_806319.html

      Good thing I am not in Arizona. This might just send me over the edge. I wish there was a peaceful way to put these “christians” out of business.

      • scout says:

        “We Need To Surround The Funerals With Love. Westboro will be there”
        by Chacounne
        Sat Jan 08, 2011

        Sorry for the short diary, but this deserves to be seen by more than those who view the open comments.

        I have just learned that Westboro Baptist Church is going to picket the funerals of those murdered in Arizona today. (ht/Shannyn Moore) No, I won’t give them more credence by linking to their site, but I have viewed their website notice with my own eyes and the devastating news is there.

        I believe we need to, as was done recently at another one of their protests, surround the mourners with love, so those from Westboro are drown out, and not seen or heard.

        What say you, Kossacks ? If you are in or near Tuscon, will you help to surround them with love ?

        Love and Hugs,
        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/8/934516/-We-Need-To-Surround-The-Funerals-With-Love.-Westboro-will-be-there

        • Marnie says:

          This is such a perfect way to peacefully and positively show opposite of the hate and support for the victims and non haters.

          Thanks for that notification.

          An not a Arizonan but lend my moral support to such a demonstration of peace and support.

        • Dagian says:

          It wouldn’t hurt to have some buddies with motorcycles as part of the outer ring, gunning their engines. Ditto for any vehicle with a “muffler challenged” exhaust system. That can usually drown out almost any pleasant or UNpleasant sounds in the area.

        • LibertyLover says:

          If I can go down and shield these families, I will. I live in Phoenix, but it is a short drive.

      • Gramiam says:

        I AM in Arizona, Smokey. My hope is that those in attendance at the funerals will do as the friends and relatives of one soldier did. Quietly, and ignoring the human garbage who would dare to disrespect the dead, these people were blocked and prevented from getting anywhere near the funeral. I imagine that this is the sort of maneuver that the eloquent Sheriff of Pima County is quite capable of managing.

        • leenie17 says:

          “I imagine that this is the sort of maneuver that the eloquent Sheriff of Pima County is quite capable of managing.”

          From the heartfelt comments I heard from him yesterday, I do believe you are absolutely correct.

      • Jim Keating says:

        I am in Arizona and don’t know any more than you about these circumstances. I am not
        sure the individual that caused this is political. Certainly, it is a sign of our times, but
        not a condemation. Just maybe it will turn into a positive force that stops this madness.

      • Millie says:

        I’m just heartsick about this too. And, most especially about Palin trying to lie her way out of shared responsibility for this makes me even madder. (surveyor marks on the map – give me a break!)

        Fox is keeping any negative about Palin off their airwaves. I so hope that TLC takes down her show tonight. Why would anyone even watch it?

        We are one very sick nation!

        • dreamgirl says:

          I am heartsick too. this tragedy is “brought to you by___” everyTV show, corporation who sponsors support of campaigns who value violent platitudes.

          Corporations own our newspapers, our airwaves, televisions…. our politicians.

          Regulations are supposed to be enforced by our Congress. I can’t say anymore… I am stunned and disgusted with politics and ………

      • fishingmamma says:

        My friends in Tuscon have promised to show up for this. They plan to spread the word. I am hopeful that the WBC will be forced to stand on a street corner in Phoenix, 100 miles away. Spread the word.

    • Susabelle says:

      Oh, Smokey Mountain Blue,
      Let us grieve for us all..We have come to this..We have not learned from the past.
      Oh, what a sorry, sorry place we find ourselves in.
      “When will we ever learn?”

  43. thatcrowwoman says:

    “And what’ll you do now, my blue-eyed son ?
    And what’ll you do now my darling young one ?
    I’m a-goin’ back out ‘fore the rain starts a-fallin’
    I’ll walk to the deepths of the deepest black forest
    Where the people are a many and their hands are all empty
    Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters
    Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison
    Where the executioner’s face is always well hidden
    Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten
    Where black is the color, where none is the number

    And I’ll tell and think it and speak it and breathe it
    And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it

    Then I’ll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin’
    But I’ll know my songs well before I start singin’
    And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, and it’s a hard
    It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.”

    • jimzmum says:

      Thank you, Linda and TCW.

    • Alaska Pi says:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09bai.html?hp
      A Turning Point in the Discourse, but in Which Direction?

      • formerwriter says:

        Thank you for this. The article asks readers whether this will be the end of an era of violent political discourse, or the beginning of an era where violent words become more acceptable. I think you mentioned that your father was burnt in effigy as a local elected official? How awful. And how awful that acts of violence– figurative or literal– continue in a democracy where political discourse is the only way we can progress. Thank you for your thoughts this morning.

        • Alaska Pi says:

          He was hung in effigy at a school board meeting in a small rural district because he fired, with documentation and for cause, a 3rd grade teacher who slapped and humiliated her students as a method of classroom control. His stance was that it had to be out in the open so she could not get rehired in another district.
          The local John Birchers were furious that dad would deny a job to a good-christian-woman-who-understood-spare-the-rod-spoil-the-child. It was a very scary few months…
          It was the highest profile action but by no means the only threat or intimidating tactic thrown at dad and our whole family.
          This kind of crap needs to be out in the open and the broader community, no matter what their political affiliation, needs to stand up and be counted as regards toning down inflammatory behavior and language… else we turn down that dark road we have walked so often before…

          • leenie17 says:

            A danderous infection only heals when it is exposed to the air and the light. My congratulations to your father and your family for the courage you demonstrated in standing up to that woman and her supporters.

            If people in the Republican party had had your father’s courage, perhaps the hatred of the past few years would not have been accepted and encouraged, all in the selfish name of seeking political power.

          • thatcrowwoman says:

            Good for your dad! I’m so tired of folks whining that “the union won’t let bad teachers get fired”…when due process measures are in place for administrators to document misconduct and fire “for cause.” Many administrators are unwilling to do their jobs when it comes to this thorny issue. Good on him for acting on the courage of his convictions and protecting the children in your schools.

            The right thing is not often the easy thing. Your dad set a good example for us all to follow.

          • dreamgirl says:

            So sorry to hear what your family endured for the sake of transparency and getting rid of an abusive “christian” teacher. Good for him for having morals, ethics and decency when children and education are involved.

            Intimidation and “targets in our crosshairs” have no place in decent society.

          • Thank you for that….your father was an honorable man, that was incredibly brave. I completely respect that action by him.

    • dreamgirl says:

      Caw Caw may our crys sing : http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KC7uhMY9s

        • fishingmamma says:

          We were the generation that intended to change the planet. We were the woodstock generation. We decided to redistribute the wealth and create a world without war and hunger.

          So, here we are, looking at the results of the work of our generation and wondering what happened. Instead of creating a world of equality, we created a country that spawned Enron and Bernie Madoff. We traded our work ethic for instant invisible wealth and we lost the bet. I am a democrat and I am guilty of thinking that the next election will be the time when things will get better. I send money to Unicef and to Heifer International and I try to tell myself that is enough. It is not. The re-structuring of our system that we envisioned in the 60′s was what was needed and we did not go far enough. The change did not happen.

          Now we wonder what happened and we wonder who to blame. Bush? Reagen? Clinton? Bush Jr? One congress or another? These people only did exactly what we hired them to do. They took off the controls so that our greed could fly to the moon and back unnoticed and we pocketed the money. If you own a house, you are guilty. You cannot have noticed that for ten years your home value went up 10% per year while your wages stayed flat. How is that sustainable? At the same time, you were lured into taking out loans against that fictitious equity to fund vacations and remodels.

          We all need to stop looking at the other party and start looking at ourselves.

          We all have a hand in how the world looks today.

          Done with my rant for the day. Thanks for listening.

  44. thatcrowwoman says:

    May the victims rest in peace and may their deaths not be in vain.

    We have the power to disagree without resorting to violence.

    We need to reconsider our treatment and funding for people with mental illness (one of Reagan’s greatest travesties was gutting mental health programs, imho).

    We have the duty, as a society, to seek justice, and to hold those who speak hate accountable for the fall-out.

    • A fan from CA says:

      Yes, we must start to take care of those with mental issues. Public Option including Mental Health care?

      And we must hold responsible all who preach fear and hate. The enablers of Scarah. And elected Rep Bachmann come to mind as someone else who has stated in speeches that she wants her supporters “armed and dangerous”.

      • PollyinAK says:

        Political coups, and terrorist leaders often use the confused and mentally unstable to do their bidding.

        • Like Fox ‘news’ does…..beck saying that ‘government vampires are coming to suck the blood of our children’ – is not helpful to our citizens ….sad people believe that crap and if that’s all they hear….they act on the things that scare them….

          • Alaska Pi says:

            amen

          • zyxomma says:

            Ever since Reagan, many of the streets and sidewalks of New York City are now being walked, even slept on, by those who used to be the long-term residents of state hospitals and other facilities for the mentally ill. They got dumped onto the streets, unceremoniously and usually without any kind of help. Yes, the veterans can walk into any VA hospital and see someone, but the rest, who were once wards of the state, are in a prison without walls. Those of us with places to live, jobs, and all the other niceties have no choice but to share the streets of our city with them. It’s shameful, and often leads to citizens (especially women) being preyed upon.

      • Dagian says:

        It was advocates for the mentally ill who got the laws changed such that more people could check themselves out. While many of the institutions were little more than people-warehouses, some were rather good. I view it as a “throw the baby out with the bathwater” effect.

        It may be time to revisit the issue, the pendulum has careened to both extremes–I wish to believe that there is a reasonable middle ground.

    • jojobo1 says:

      I also have always thought so also.So many are walking the streets and homeless because they can’t be trusted to take their meds,They were just shoved out on the streets.This isn’t the first time a mentally unstable person has gunned down someone wasn’t the shooter at one of the colleges also mentally ill and his family had tried to get him help and couldn’t???

      • leenie17 says:

        Yes…the Virginia Tech shooting in 2007 where 32 people were killed and many more were injured before the shooter killed himself.

        In reality, anyone who commits that type of act cannot possibly be mentally stable. Perhaps they might fit under the legal definition of sane, but I suspect most of us would consider them to be mentally ill.

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