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Friday, January 28, 2022

Open Thread – What to Do? A Poll! – UPDATED

There’s always been discussion here at The Mudflats about how to deal with off-topic posts.  It’s a conundrum.  Lots of off-topic posts have excellent commentary, exciting links, and humor.  Nobody wants to give all that up.  But, they can also interrupt the flow of a conversation, and cause some mental whiplash for readers who like to follow a discussion about a topic.

We’ve tried a variety of organizational methods seeking the perfect solution, and of course, we have come to the distinct conclusion that there is no perfect answer. (Why is that always the answer??)

We’ve had regular open threads, we’ve had open threads on the forum, we have I Heart Mudflats which can be used for that purpose, but what do YOU think?

I thought it might be a good idea to take the pulse of the community and see what you think would work best.   You are the ones who live in the comments section, after all!  So, take a moment if you will, and check in.

If you’re not sure what the Forum is, click on the tab above that says “What’s the Forum?”  If you’re not sure what “I Heart Mudflats” is, click the link over on the sidebar to your right.  You all know what an open thread is, because you’re looking at one right now.

Whatever we decide to do, I’ll be going through posts and doing some reminding, and a little sweeping of off-topic posts until everyone gets used to it.  Ultimately,  this will be a very good thing.  Nobody will have to feel guilty about posting something off-topic, but there will still be a place to share all those wonderful insights that just can’t be fit into the category of the moment.  OK (rubbing hands together)

So, what say you?

[poll id=”11″]

UPDATE:

Hi all,
Well, I’m going to go out on a limb and call this one early.  And the winner is….. Open Thread by a landslide!

So, everyone.  Look into my eyes.  And take a deeeep…..cleansing….breath.

(pauses while you take a deep cleansing breath)

It will all be OK.  Mudflats is still Mudflats.  I’m still me.  All is well.  I promise I will neither become the comment gestapo, a large corporation, or a kill joy.  Cross my heart.  🙂

You will have a beautiful open thread on which to discuss anything you like – serious, goofy, creative and any combination of them.  And you will never, I repeat never be off topic.  And you won’t have to say you are off topic because you won’t be!  Personally, I will enjoy this thread because often you all serve as my inspiration, source of information, and sanity break from the mayhem that is Mudflats Central.  And now I know where to go to find it all.

This open thread will remain active until the next one is put up.  I’ll try to spruce it up a bit with a nice Alaskan photo, or a poll, or something so it doesn’t look all naked and boring.

This open thread will go up early morning east coast time, so all of you on that side of the continent can post about all the new stuff happening in the news cycle, while yours truly is fast asleep in the northwest corner, or stumbling around making coffee.

Now….what if you stray off topic on a regular thread?  Thumb screws?  Banishment? 20 lashes with a wet noodle?    These are not my style.   Well….maybe the wet noodle.  An occasional off topic post is bound to happen and is no big deal.  A comment which begins on topic and wanders is just fine.  I will undoubtedly use such brutal tactics as gentle reminders and hesitant smiles to guide an excess of off topic posts back to the open thread.  And everyone will survive.

I know that everyone is attached to Mudflats.  I am too.  And you may all consider utilizing the open thread as a gift in kind to me, and a way to make things a little simpler and smoother on my end.

So with that, you may look forward tomorrow morning to an open thread wherein you may share your virtual coffee, meet up with friends, post links, rants, and anything you’d like.  I’ll be looking forward to reading it once I’ve had my coffee!

Comments

comments

Comments
137 Responses to “Open Thread – What to Do? A Poll! – UPDATED”
  1. michigander says:

    I haven’t been reading comments for a few days. Not because I don’t care nor respect others opinions, but for fear I can’t keep my ‘mouth shut’ and might offend someone unintentionlly. I would start a recall on Palin. I feared the truth on Sullivan would cost Croft votes. Not trying to be mean, just care. So I gave my opinion and thank you for that right. I just plain care. The problem to me is what happens in ANY state ultimately effects us as all. One by one and all that good stuff. It’s up to the people and thank you to those who care enough to make the change for the good of everyone.

    Thank you AKM, keep putting the truth out and KNOW it makes a difference. How people use it is their problem and from someone who gets offended here and backs off, Snoskred et al; you do an excellent job IMHO. From what I’ve seen people aren’t put off by moderating, it is just some posters themselves. People clash, read others wrong and you do an amazing job. Chirping Baby Robins award to you! (I have hatchlings on my porch!) (o:

  2. bubbles says:

    akm and snoskred you are the best. i love to come home to mudflats. anything you decide is fine with me…love b

  3. the problem child IS MY NAME says:

    Love the expanded “Recent Comments” in the side bar! Thanks, AKM, that makes it a lot easier to figure out where the latest action is.

  4. austintx says:

    AKM – Thank you. And thanks to all that help make this blog the best.

  5. Irishgirl says:

    I agree with Writing from Alaska. I don’t think anyone minds breaking news and someone pointing it out…that is the fun of this place…we get the news first!! Also, the little quips and notes of sarcasm interjected into the conversation are great in my opinion and makes Mudflats what it is. I don’t see that changing at all.

    I do think the open thread sounds like a great idea….nothing would be off topic. I hope everyone sticks around and gives it a try. 🙂

  6. On Topic on Off Topic – just thought I would weigh in.

    Some items are briefly off topic, like you are talking to your friends, solving the problems of the world, and somebody taps you on the shoulder and says – by the way, did you know you left your lights on? Or, Did you guys want to check out this cool thing that is showing right now on the news?

    However, other times, somebody pops into the virtual internet room and wants to write a short dissertation on palindromes or something, and though I dearly love palindromes, I want to keep visiting with my friends about whatever interesting topic we were discussing. If I am hanging with my friends, I know who is talking about what topic, because they are right in front of me, but with the comment section, I am looking for the friends that are talking about our main topic, but I have to temporarily tune in to each speaker to see if they are talking about the same thing, or if they are – oh, no, now it’s not palindromes!! – it’s Ford trucks with gun racks!?! – Ok, anyway, you get my point. Maybe.

    Just food for thought. Or something.

  7. NMJ says:

    No one needs to be worried about this nudge towards staying on topic. Anyone who has been around here for a while remembers when amazing amounts of on-topic comments were posted, and info and links were eagerly offered and snapped up. Then Mudflats became a world-wide phenom, people got to know each other, and suddenly there were lots of days when half or most of the thread was off-topic. There were many days when you’d have to scroll down page after page, over and over again to try to find where to pick up the topic.

    AKM received so many complaints about the difficulty in finding and following up on comments in just a single thread, that s/he made the request for everyone to please stay on topic. And to facilitate threads made-to-order where everyone could discuss their favorite topic, the forums were created, and a night open thread was posted for those who didn’t want to mosey over to the forums and log in. This has worked out beautifully.

    I haven’t had as much time as in days of yore to spend uncounted hours reading every single comment but I do notice off-topic comments becoming a little more numerous. It’s not a big deal yet, but I suspect AKM and Snoskred are trying to be more proactive in addressing it before it becomes a real problem. It’s easier to change a bad habit before it becomes set in stone. Getting used to the forums, etc., was pretty traumatic for some people.

    I love the idea of a whole 24-hour open thread. I usually have several tabs (sometimes 12+) open at the same time as I browse the ‘tubes, and flip back and forth between them. I think it would be pretty convenient for me to keep a tab for the open thread and a tab for the other Mudflats threads open in Firefox.

    I don’t think there’s any chance of Mudflats going corporate; that would kill this blog. And I can’t think of any other blog that changes its format based on input from its readers…just one more reason why Mudflats is the best!

  8. ez.pz. says:

    AKM, how difficult would this be?

    I notice that, once I’ve read the first few comments and am moving further down the screen, pretty soon only 50% of the screen width is being used. There is a grey are on the left, then the comment text, then a white area, then a grey area again… i.e. a lot of unused.

    What about moving everything to the left, overwriting the grey are on the left-hand-side? Then use the bottom-right quadrant of the screen for a strictly off-topic area. If one could navigate between the 3/4 screen and the 1/4 screen using a mouse click then both areas would be easy to access and equally available to all.

    Perhaps you could simply superimpose an off-topic forum thread on top of the main screen?

    This is just a wordpress template. Basically, all I did was click on one I liked! So all the tweaking and shifting is beyond the scope of what can be done I’m afraid. I’ve toyed with the idea of changing templates, but it won’t be anytime really soon. Wish I had a magic wand… 😉 AKM

  9. Enjay in Eastern MT says:

    I am totally guilty of OT’ing — Raising hand high in the air & waving.

    Not so much that I go on a rant or post animal husbandry tips (lol) – but when checking out other “sites” – find interesting pieces or comments that like-minded MudPuppies may also find of interest – I post a SNIP of the article with a read more @ link. (‘cept those other places)

    The Forum is vast – and I find it difficult to maneuver around it, unless I am looking for a specific topic. The “I Love Mudflats” – have not visited often but will put a sticky note on the bottom of monitor to remind myself to head of there.

    I enjoy the flow & comments here – changes will not deter my constant lurking (much to my boss’s dismay) but like a remote for the TV – I have a scroll button on my mouse to by-pass what … doesn’t interest me, or comments I may feel are … not quite ready for prime time, if you know what I mean.

    Open thread for Off Topics has my vote.

    This is a great place – my home away from home – but also understand when the “kids” get too rambunctious – the grown-ups have to “settle us down”

  10. nswfm CA says:

    By taking grifter lessons from her mom. I think she’s got role models right there in her family. Arctic Cat, all kinds of shooz, make up, and I’m sure the list goes on. I don’t have high hopes for that poor kid. Not her fault, just the cirumstance.

  11. pearl89 says:

    This will probably be the only proPalin clan post I ever make. In support of Piper Palin…just read that some dude in Juneau is trying to have Piper’s lemonade stand closed down. While not a Palin supporter, I find it a little odd to want close a lemonade stand being run by a 7/8 year old. What is the harm unless the stand is blocking the side walk?

    This same dude (Chip Thoma?) is also protesting all the tour groups thru his neighborhood to go see the governor’s mansion. I would imagine that 1000s of people a day walking thru your neighborhood would be a bit annoying. I don’t live there, but as long as they stay on the sidewalks what is gonna do?

    I wish him luck either stopping or only allowing tours during certain hours, but without knowing more, I think he is offbase on the kidlet’s lemonade stand. How else is she going to afford more Louis Vitton purses?

  12. InterestedPerson says:

    Hate to say this, and I will deny admitting this, but I am from Wisconsin,
    and if Drew Peterson is from here, I don’t know. Righ now “my people” are my neighborhood, my clients,
    the Obamas, and mudflatters. Had the flu and dont have time to read about
    more awfulness.
    I think this would be categorized as an ‘out-of-it’ OT. Maybe. also.]

  13. The Rubber Room Hotel says:

    crystalwolf, yes that peterson was a particular psychopath, I think his mother new about that the whole time. that other peterson he is particularly foul, my understanding is that he has been able to keep his children from being questioned. I also wonder if there will be a person or 2 who might speak up now that he is in jail. I hope he does not get any bail.

  14. crystalwolf aka caligrl says:

    The Rubber Room Hotel Says:
    May 7th, 2009 at 8:54 PM

    Thanks Sno, that tickels…
    Rub, works. or RRH or hey you….
    This subject was kind of an ugly one, but that guy has really been tickeng me off. He was a cop and has gotten away with murder for a long time. i feel really bad for his children, sorta makes Gino and the Dude lame and harmless in comparison.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    RubberRoom: I think everyone knew this guy was guilty for a long time…he just hid his tracks well as psychopaths are able to do…True will prevail in the end! There was another peterson out here on the west coast who killed his wife, Stacy and he is on death row now! He thought he got away with it also.
    Truth Rules, and Truth will come out about GINO too!

  15. crystalwolf aka caligrl says:

    Phil has a blog article up:
    Alaska’s 2008 Election Bloggers to be Discussed in Upcoming Book
    http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2009/05/alaskas-2008-election-bloggers-to-be.html

  16. crystalwolf aka caligrl says:

    Snoskred Says:
    May 7th, 2009 at 8:43 PM

    Ok, let me make this EXTREMELY clear now..

    There is no such thing as off topic in an open thread. 😉 That is why it is called an open thread. 😉
    ““““““`
    YEAH! 😀

  17. The Rubber Room Hotel says:

    Thanks Sno, that tickels…
    Rub, works. or RRH or hey you….
    This subject was kind of an ugly one, but that guy has really been tickeng me off. He was a cop and has gotten away with murder for a long time. i feel really bad for his children, sorta makes Gino and the Dude lame and harmless in comparison.

  18. seattlefan says:

    I agree wholeheartedly with post #106 (Rubber Room Hotel). I come here for some sanity and I totally appreciate the Moderators and AKM for the insightful stories we get to see and are exposed to. To Snoskred, Thanks!!!! I get it.

  19. Snoskred says:

    (gets out the q-tip) C’mere, The Rubber Room Hotel.. oh, what a long name you have!

    OK this may be way off topic though I think it is an open thread.

    Ok, let me make this EXTREMELY clear now..

    There is no such thing as off topic in an open thread. 😉 That is why it is called an open thread. 😉

  20. Snoskred says:

    Great comment, Alaska Pi. I am especially concerned at the voices gone quiet lately, they are all greatly missed and I hope they will feel encouraged to return.

    We’re not doing this to hurt anyone and we certainly did not mean to upset anyone. We’re doing this because we recognise what a fantastic community exists here. People are so loving, kind and generous and any one member leaving is like a branch breaking off our tree.

    We know that people felt guilty for going off topic, which is a sucky feeling. While we’ve provided many other great options for those off topic conversations it is pretty clear that many people want to be able to have them here. 😉 The new plan provides a way for them to do that – and for the rest of us, we have all the other great options still available.

    We’ll see how it goes. 🙂 We can only give it a try, right?

  21. The Rubber Room Hotel says:

    OK this may be way off topic though I think it is an open thread.
    But on the news MSNBC it just broke that Drew Peterson the guy from Wisconsin (I think) ex-cop who’s 4th wife has been missing for over a year was just arrested for the murder of his third wife. I have to say I am so glad that guy has been thumbing his nose at us for a long time.. I truly hope there is a conviction any mudflaters from his area?

  22. crystalwolf aka caligrl says:

    Diva has a post about Eddie Smurke harrassing Andree a couple of days ago!
    He is a filthy pig!
    http://divasblueoasis.com/diary/593/the-governors-backlash-campaignthe-eddie-burke-component

  23. Alaska Pi says:

    I appreciate the nudging back to the earlier form on this site. I am missing many voices who have just disappeared in the last few weeks and months.

    Unlike many of the folks who responded to the poll , I see the Flats more like a giant houseparty , in someone else’s home. The multiple threads provided each day are like rooms where folks with similar conversational interests gravitate toward each other.
    I can wander through the parlor with all the sports talk, wave at people I know and go find a group discussing books or gardening in the study. I can drift into the kitchen and catch up on new recipes and join the gang on the deck who are up in arms about the latest gobbeldygook the borough assembly pulled…

    Maybe we all became too enamored of thumbimg our noses at the ghastly gov over the PJs and basement cracks she made but all of us cramming into each new thread has gotten stuffy lately.

    Nudging all of us to circulate a bit more is healthy. Trying to carry on so many conversations in the basement has drowned out some really interesting voices… others seem to have fled , whether claustrophobic or overheated, I have no idea.
    This is the Flats… we can wear our PJ’s and cart our popcorn throughout the house and out on the deck , if we want… also, too.
    I’m gonna wear mine when we get to roast marshmallows soon…

    Thanks AKM for this place.

  24. sauerkraut says:

    “And this is not, nor has it ever been about me going “national”. I’ve always had the attitude that I do what I do because I enjoy it, and whatever happens happens. *shrug* It makes me happy that so many people enjoy The Mudflats, and I’m pleased that at times I’ve felt like this blog has made a difference.”

    __________________
    That’s the most important part. Do whatever you need to do to continue the enjoyment. We need to remember that once the fun disappears for you, then you disappear. What would we do then? Read Perez Hilton?

  25. dowl says:

    oops, meant ON TOPIC

  26. The Rubber Room Hotel says:

    What I love about this site is the great reporting, the factual information woven into a gripping entertaining and informative read.
    I also love the fact that we get to comment on the articles or posts and every ones opinion is so great coming from what seems every corner of the world.
    I love that it centers on Alaska politics and all things Alaska. But includes national issues, and other important issues that crop up from time to time.
    I do love to read every bodies perspective on issues and always feel as if I have learned a thing or two.
    I like very much that trolls are kept off and there is no confrontation or derogatory commenting about each other. Not that there are not some derogatory comments made about the subject of the posts but again that’s part of the fun.
    Yes sometimes the comments tend to wander but usually come back to the topic or are a part of a side topic.
    I doubt that AKM had much of an idea of how this would play out and I am sure it has had some growing pains. I know I get off topic on occasion and have had sno’s Qtip aimed in my direction before, I take no offense.
    Mudflats has evolved and the most important thing to me is the community and a place to visit with like minded people.
    I have dabbled in the forums on occasion and even started my own thread before.
    I hope it doesn’t change much but I do understand the need to moderate. mudflats covers some very serious topics and has become a voice heard from the wilderness and much to important to lose.
    I have dabbled in some story telling and writing and am attempting to start my own web page, though it is slow going, that’s why I appreciate having the forum to try stuff out on.
    Thanks AKM and all the moderators that do such a wonderful job.
    I will abide by your rules maybe with an occasional slip up.

  27. dowl says:

    AKM and Snoskred and other admins, I appreciate your effort. I’ve found in Mudflats a way to sit back relax and enjoy other POVs. I do use the forum though usually when it’s quiet here (meaning I’ve read the most recent posts and comments).

    Keep up the good work and I will continue to visit with other ‘flatters. I trust that AKM/Mudflats is judged by its wonderful reflections, insights and journalistic skill rather than by the posts & comments. For me, most people’s comments are thoughtful and OT.

    I respect your right to do what is best for you and the admins. Most of us appear to be good ‘guests’ when we visit and I trust that we do realize that a lot of intense work goes into moderating mud, mudflatters, and muck.

  28. sauerkraut says:

    26 Snoskred Says: May 7th, 2009 at 3:45 PM

    If you found that last comment from me jarring and confusing and out of place, that is exactly how people might feel when they read the comments on say – coal – and find something about Bristol Palin.
    _____________

    I don’t get it… where are either OT? both are dirty, non?

    the possum genitalia, however… now, that was jarring. unnecessarily so.

    carry on.

  29. sauerkraut says:

    Just as long as you don’t make me go on a date with Sarah Palin (or listen to any more Bristol Palin interviews), you can punish me any way you’d like.

    .

    .

    .

    well, no, not really 😉

    OT – according to Jay Leno… new book by Levi Johnston… “I couldn’t keep my Johnston in my Levi’s.”

  30. nswfm CA says:

    I’d like to add that the So Cal mud meet up came about because we had a side conversation here during the fire in Santa Barbara last fall and asked for help organizing on the forum. I had been to the forum before, got overwhelmed by the mass of it, but it helped us to get together and to raise money for the blog plus some SBers who had lost their home. I think that sense of community and caring came through for the people of the YK Delta with the donations from all over, including kids from HI. In addition, people try to get media attention for this blog and the serious issues that it raises and a few days later, they finally report it. You keep doing a great job, and we’ll all keep learning from each other.

  31. seattlefan says:

    Snoskred: Thank you for addressing my question. You did not address my whole question and I felt a little bit out left to dry. I was just asking. I am not here all day long and had an honest question.

    AKM..I love what you do and keep it on! Sorry about the the mayor thing but you must persist! After all, we all had to endure 4 long years of an additional Bush Administration. Things will change! Best wishes to you and the rest of this community.

    Thanks seattlefan! To hopefully answer the remainder of your question… There was no particular post or posts that were deemed unworthy or inappropriate. Generally posts which fall out of the comment guidelines will be dealt with in moderation. The vast majority of them never make it on to the site. Those that do are usually quickly snapped up and put in the “pending” queue for further action. I used to do this alone, but now with the help of a couple admins, it goes much quicker.

    I answered a comment by physicsmom a couple comments back that may flesh out the reasons for why I’m asking for your input now. There’s no particular reason other than it makes life easier for me. Let me know if this helps. You can comment or email me at akmuckraker(at)yahoo(dot)com. And that goes for everyone.
    Thanks!
    AKM

  32. Physicsmom says:

    BTW, if I’ve kept track accurately, I’ve seen about a half-dozen comments here where people said they really dislike the OT comments, and the many more have said they didn’t mind. I agree with ShellyDee that one of the poll options should have been “leave everything alone, OT doesn’t bother me.”

    Just posted an update. Too much OT makes it more difficult for me. I try to keep track of comments and I find it difficult sometimes when they’re all jumbled around and I’m trying to find something, or am trying to gauge how well a post is resonating. If I see a post has a large number of comments, it would be helpful if I knew that this was a topic that people found interesting, and not that there was some other thing happening that was totally unrelated that people were talking about.

    And this is not, nor has it ever been about me going “national”. I’ve always had the attitude that I do what I do because I enjoy it, and whatever happens happens. *shrug* It makes me happy that so many people enjoy The Mudflats, and I’m pleased that at times I’ve felt like this blog has made a difference.

    Hope this helps.

    AKM

  33. Physicsmom says:

    First, I love AKM and her writing, both the content and the style. I love the comments both on- and off-topic. The moderators do a great job of scrubbing objectionable content and trolls. I agree with others who see this community as a big, noisy coffee shop where we can converse or just listen as the mood strikes us. I often follow odd links and learn many new things that AKM hadn’t covered. I enjoy the songs and jokes. I hope we don’t end up getting too up-tight. I never got the hang of the forum and thought it felt “cliquish,” or that I was stumbling into a conversation in which I wasn’t invited. I know I’m always invited here – at least so far. Off topic posts are usually sparked by the thread of conversation, just like in real situations where someone says, “oh, that reminds me…” If this is about making it to the big time, with National attention being brought to AKM, that’s good for her, but will definitely change the tenor of this blog, and that will be too bad. I read three sites faithfully everyday: Mudflats is first, then DailyKos and Huffington Post. I never look at the open threads on DK and hardly ever here, so I know I would lose content if OT gets thrown over to Open topic. All that being said, it’s AKM’s site and hers to manage as she sees fit. I hope we don’t sacrifice too much as we grow up.

  34. Alaska Pi says:

    @96 History repeats
    ——————
    I agree.

  35. I love it here, just wish I had more of the thing called TIME! Honestly, the OT doesn’t really bother me. As someone else said earlier, I have the option of scrolling past it if I’m not interested.

    Thank you AKM, and the team that works so hard to keep it running.

  36. History repeats says:

    I think OT is a problem. No matter what the subject, the discussion invariably comes back to GINO or Bristol or Levi or Piper or some other Palinbot. Sometimes I want to give it a rest. I do not want a discussion of the mayor’s race interrupted by a blow by blow of what Levi said on the Today show.

  37. Lainey says:

    @AKM….lol

  38. Jim says:

    I read the original post for the information, I read the comments for entertainment. Any other way takes away from the spontaneity of the joint. I don’t personally post often enough for it to matter one way or another, but I DO know that once a new post is up, people abandon any and all “old” posts en masse. If OT posts were more closely monitored that might change, especially if there is a new open thread available daily. Easy enough to open another tab. As for myself, I’m more of an anarchist…

  39. Tree Fitz says:

    I don’t think this is much of a problem. In general I resist efforts at conformity. I believe the community self-corrects and I think the moderators on this site inject themselves too much.

    We live in a self-organizing universe. We have all been stewed in hierarchy, rank and various privilege all our lives so we take some kind of pecking order (hierarchy) as the way things are supposed to be. But if we could all step back and low things to flow in their own natural rhythm, they work out just fine.

    There is an effort to impose hierarchy just about everywhere so I am not particularly criticizing this website. But I keep thinking this site seems to have been birthed very naturally, organically . . . and I believe the community that has arisen ought to be allowed to flow in natural, organic ways, without much moderation.

  40. Shelley Dee says:

    I can’t answer the poll! Bummer! It doesn’t have an option for me and I can’t decide on any of the ones available.

    OT posts/comments don’t bother me. I think they bother fewer people than you realize. Maybe just some vocal people, but. . . even though ONE option or another of the poll may be winning, that might be because there is no: “Leave it the way it is, OT doesn’t bother me” option!

  41. TBNTJudy says:

    As others have said, redwoodmuse, please don’t go. I have found your posts to be very informative, and I would sorely miss your insight.

    Like so many others, I don’t go to the forums for the reasons mentioned, and while I did visit the IHM site and appreciate all that went into it, I’m more likely to stay with the main action here. I don’t mind OT posts, especially the ones clearly labeled OT, because I can do a quick scan to see if I want to read it or not. Then, I scroll on if I am not interested.

    Like redwoodmuse, I have a hard time with too many rules. I, too, have been on threads with ham-handed moderators. It doesn’t feel good to me. snoskred, I don’t mean you or any of the other mods here. Like someone else said, your hammer comes with a cotton tip if and when you need to use it 😉

  42. Karin in CT says:

    Man, I don’t envy you Snos and AKM! But a balance will be achieved with you two gals running the show, I’m sure.

    It is cool beyond measure that you are both asking for our input. What other blog did/does this?

    The genuine sense of decency here on the Flats is what keeps me addicted. Keep up the great work!

  43. Lainey says:

    P.S. OT

    It’s an open thread! You can’t be OT! 😉 AKM

  44. Lainey says:

    Just an gnawing observation…Alaska is ONE of 50 United States…we have other states that have wide open spaces and hit way below zero in the winter and other states that are wooded and have scary wildlife and yet other states that are tropical or deserts with their own individual set of difficult circumstances, be it weather conditions, native or tribal residents, etc. I understand the size of Alaska, but I also take into account of how much is uninhabitable. The difference, that I see, is that only Alaska speaks of itself as some exclusive, ‘foreign’, self-sufficient, prized territory…I can’t think of any other state that does that!
    I’m not taking away from the pride you have in your state, but we all take pride in where we came from and that we are a part of something. The ppl of Alaska need to educate their uninformed & ignorant governor and let her know that this separatism is not acceptable! She is JUST a governor of ONE state, not the Queen of a land.
    Rant over. 🙂

  45. Snoskred says:

    Seattlefan wrote –

    Can I just ask what prompted this whole thing?

    We have had a policy of no off topic comments for quite some time here – there was a time last year when we asked everyone to move the off topic stuff to the forums – it is just that we went off track with it a while back. There was a time when we deleted *every* comment which was not on topic for the thread it was posted in.

    We are in pretty regular email contact with a lot of the commenters here and the general feedback we are receiving is that there has been too much off topic stuff lately, and it is disturbing the flow of comments and actually putting people off from commenting.

    When we asked people to move to the forums a while ago and keep the comments on topic we found a lot more people came out of the “lurker” closet and felt free to say something on topic.

    There is a tendancy for people to see the “community” aspect of the blog as something negative – it is like being in a relationship where you have shared jokes and the new people aren’t in on them.

    EG the whole GINO thing. Even I did not know what that stood for, for quite some time. That kind of thing can exclude people while it is including those in the know.

    So it isn’t actually a new thing, it is an old thing which we’re talking about maybe putting back in place as it seems some of the older, long term commenters have become a bit busy and their reasoning for not commenting or interacting has been too much OT stuff and not having the time to read it all, and also starting to feel like they are on the outside instead of a part of the community. 😉

    Did you guys notice that we’re asking for input from ya’all instead of just saying “this is how things will be, the dictators have spoken”. 🙂

    If anyone is willing to walk away from such a great community because we are simply trying to ask people what they feel is the better way to do things and find ways to include *more* people instead of less people.. then maybe they never really wanted to be a member of the community in the first place.. 🙁

    I’m sorry to say that, but it is how I feel. 🙁

  46. ayerishgrl (quarter granite palin) says:

    Hi guys-i have to say that i’ve never really let anything OT bother me, i just skip over it if i’m not interested. I’ve also only been to the forum a few times, i just have a hard time navigating i guess.

    Having said that, i’m happy to do whatever is deemed easiest for all. I just love the comraderie i’ve found here, the intelligence, wit, humor and sense of family and i’d hate to see it disappear for any reason.

    I promise i will go to i heart mudflats more often!

  47. rebekkah says:

    Am just a reader and once-in-a-while poster, and love the whole community feeling here. It’s like someone earlier posted, going to the local coffee/pub where everyone knows your name. Every good thing I guess has to evolve and when it grows, then new techniques have to be applied.

    I personally didn’t mind the ot posts; I always liked Frank Barone’s (Everybody Loves Raymond) attitude, like, “take a load off, sit down, loosen your pants, and enjoy the show (picks up tv remote)”. – “MARIE! Chips! – Or, in AKM’s case:”AKM! Moose Chips!”

  48. seattlefan says:

    Oh I hate to see some of this anxiety here. Can I just ask what prompted this whole thing? Are there comments being made that are considered not worthy or upsetting? I’m not on here all day so I don’t really know what is going on.

    I’m not trying to stir the pot, just wondering. I LOVE coming here and I understand the desire to remain on topic for the most part, but unless there are blatant attacks or hateful language, I don’t see a problem with a little OT here and there. I again vote for the semi-daily Open Thread. To me the “real time” element” is what is so absorbing about this site. You can’t get that on a forum…you can’t be in all threads at once.

  49. MinNJ says:

    @the problem child is my name
    LOL!

  50. Snoskred says:

    SillyWhabbit said –

    I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

    We have a special filter known as the spam filter, and I can ask it to put posts with specific words directly in there. EG swear words go straight to the bin.

    However if I did it for first, it would mean any post which contained that word would be trapped in the spam bin.. even posts where people were say for example, talking about Michelle Obama the First lady, or Todd the First Dude.. 😉

    So it kinda wouldn’t work out so well. Sorry! 🙂

  51. crystalwolf aka caligrl says:

    AKMFan Says:
    May 7th, 2009 at 5:08 PM

    This is a personal pet peeve of mine, because I have been on many blogs/forums for a wide variety of topics and invariably when a community starts to develop, people get all uptight about OT stuff.

    Then the person(s) running the blog/forum decide they have to change things and usually what happens is there is less of a community feel/spirit and one of the things that made the blog enjoyable no longer is because there will be people that suddenly feel the need to police every thread for OTness and then either “tattle” that so-and-so is OT or to post in the thread screaming about the OT and thus making more OT because people will then defend the person that was OT from the OT police.

    I would hate to see this happen to Mudflats. I also think that anyone that decides that AKM’s points are invalid based on the comments section (which is a bunch of random people and not AKM) probably aren’t people that are coming to the blog for the right reasons in the first place and if it wasn’t the comments that they used to try and invalidate her points, it would be something else.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I totally agree! Many people have blogs. They are all over. What makes the blog are the comments! Without the commenters, a blog is just a “blog”
    I try to stay On topic, but sometimes, I get a “alert” and want to post to the blog for others to see.
    I also look to other bloggers to post links. UK lady has a different time zone, she often has news before WE get it on the west coast/Alaska.

  52. I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

  53. I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

  54. I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

  55. I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

  56. I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

  57. I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

  58. I don’t care where the OT happens or goes to. I just wish there were a special filter for the FIRST!!! posts.
    SO WHAT?

  59. Snoskred says:

    Forever Anonymous said –

    An open thread is something to wait for, your off topic or the mood of the moment may fade off by time the open thread is available.

    I just want to clarify – you don’t have to wait for an open thread. You can go back and comment on past threads – the comments are open for 3 days after something is posted.

    If there were a daily open thread, you would be able to put all off topic discussion for that day into that thread – you might have to click a link in the sidebar to get back to the thread, there is a section in the sidebar called Recent Posts which has links to all the recent posts in an easy to access place, so you could just flick to the off topic thread when you have an off topic thought.

    EG – this one from a couple of days ago is still open – https://themudflats.net/2009/05/06/open-thread-chat-away/

    I think people don’t go back and do that because they don’t think people are reading the comments on past posts but that isn’t the case – we also have a section in the sidebar called recent comments, and I know some of the readers here keep a close eye on that.. maybe we can make it show more recent comments to assist with keeping an eye on who is commenting where.

    Bigpete – the nightly open thread was closed and people were asked to move to the forums, which they mostly did. Some people didn’t love moving, and have resisted it at every turn. I get that, people don’t like change.

    Some people moved and now adore the place and in fact you don’t see them much in the comments anymore.

    The truth is, there are people sitting here pressing refresh on the screen constantly waiting for new comments. Blogs are not designed for that. Forums are designed for that. 😉

  60. EyeOnYou says:

    I’m rather new here relatively speaking, but just to add my own 2 cents. First and foremost I want to say a huge THANK YOU to AKM & her delightful team of Mods (here and the forum) for all the work they put into this place and for having it here for us to visit and use. I find it to be wonderfully refreshing to be in a place where I feel just comfortable. For me, both the blog and the forums are like being at home, taking off my shoes and sitting back in my favorite big ole comfy chair with a giant mug of coffee and going….. ahhhhhhhhhh that’t the ticket. It just feels good.

    Now I do find that there are times that the OT comments really can take the topic off into a different direction sometimes for the good, sometimes not so much. It is a very difficult balance to try and keep things going smoothly and stay on target because no matter what, conversations, and that is what these are, are going to meander here and there, incorporating one thing or another related to the original topic or not. No matter how hard you might try, that is simply the way conversations go. It’s human nature and we are after all mudpuppies which I consider to be more or less human (depending on the day 😉 ).

    The serious off topic comments are for the forum in my opinion and that is how I voted. Then I actually read the comments and it just never occurred to me that there might be those who are uncomfortable in that format, so while I did vote on the poll to use the forums for off topic matters, I think perhaps that the open thread idea is useful too.

    It is so hard to pick and choose what is the best option, not everyone is going to be happy, but I think that no matter what happens, I respect this place too much to do anything other than follow along happily in whatever direction this place goes. I like the people, I love the comments and topics available for discussion, I like the forums and the diversity it offers so, no matter what…I’ll be good with whatever happens!

    Thanks for letting me play in the mud with you all. 🙂

  61. oregonbird says:

    I find your moderating to be very well done; I think if you communicated with the more active off-topic providers, and provided them a place to gather their efforts, it would halve the problem. If it is, indeed, a problem…

    This fear of how the “outside” MSM will perceive you, or that your blog will be judged on its commentary, rather than the astute observations and writing of its producers, seems to be buying into an unhealthy point of view.

    My best suggestion is that, when you find entries that enhance the subject, and are well-written, you offer those comments premium placement — a gold star, as it were. That puts your own standards on display to the MSM, provides direct access to the most telling commentary, and gives us a bar to jump! The Conning Tower, if you will recall, did very much the same thing, and gave us new voices, while providing The New Yorker content at no cost! (Not that that’s an issue these days.)

  62. Professor Geezer says:

    I will follow whatever is desired!

    However, might I just add something here, to the conversation metaphor so wonderfully described and unpacked by redwoodmuse (although that did give me a flashback to a bad speed dating experience I once had where they grouped people initially by interests, and I ended up at the ‘arts’ table)?

    The art of conversation…a blog is a way to have conversation in the 21st century…conversation rarely is direct. It is always circuitous. Good conversation has anecdotes, laughs, tears, stories, short bursts, long responses, visual cues, etc. (One of my favorite older movies about conversation is MY DINNER WITH ANDRE.)

    I guess I always felt that here in the comments–that we were allowed all of these responses, because it was part of the big, artful conversation we were having.

    I left Mudflats after the election, due to time constraints. I would read occasionally but rarely post. I started posting again during the week of Celtic Diva’s ethic filing violation. What drew me back in in terms of posting was the art of conversation in action. I am not saying I have added anything here, but I have so benefitted from what others have posted.

  63. BigPete says:

    Snoskred @67

    Actually, ages ago, we had a variation of a daily open thread with a late evening (in my part of the world) “Night shift” open thread.

    A 24hrs Open thread for odds & ends, combined with more ‘on-topic discipline’ could work. How hard could it be to have a trial run?

  64. I think this cannot be decided today.

    An open thread is something to wait for, your off topic or the mood of the moment may fade off by time the open thread is available.

    Having an easy access to the comment section in I LOVE THE MUDFLATS will keep your off topic thoughts current and relevant to the AKM post. It will be like gathering around the water cooler.

  65. MinNJ says:

    I love this place and all of it’s inhabitants, some perhaps more than others. (!)
    I like both a serious and also a fun discussion. It’s the two together that are so compelling, as is its founder in her writing of wistful and creative fare for us to read among those that are hard-hitting. They both speak a truth that she wants us to hear. And it is in the enjoyment of listening that I find inspiration and solace from our political and personal woes.

    Whatever is the consensus is what by what I will abide. I am truly a listener when it comes to the nitty-gritty of Alaskan politics.

  66. Lainey says:

    I don’t mind any of it…comments on topic, comments off topic. You can skip whatever you like or read what you want. Sometimes reading what someone says triggers a slightly related, slightly OT, but it’s all interesting. I like lynnrockets too…she should compile her songs in a loose leaf and sell in Mudflats store…proceeds to charity or something like that.

  67. nswfm CA says:

    # 67. Yes, and the world will stay in recession due to people on this blog not focusing on their work!

  68. Snoskred says:

    Bear in mind I am not saying that is what will happen, I just want to hear what you would think if that did happen.. 🙂

  69. Snoskred says:

    Tigerwine said –

    With me, it’s a time thing – I barely have time to read and digest all on this blog, without going to others on Mudflats.

    That is actually one of the big issues we see – that while ya’all have the time to pick through a thread with on and off topic comments, many people don’t have the time to do that, and it actually stops them reading the comments and/or posting a comment.

    So let me just throw a thought out there, and see what you would think of this idea.

    If there were *one* open thread posted each day where you could talk about anything and everything, would you then be willing to work with us to keep comments on the other posts on topic?

    Would this be an acceptable compromise to all? 🙂

  70. fawnskin mudpuppy says:

    redwoodmuse…

    i love your post at #45

  71. GA Peach a/k/a Lance the Boil aka Crust Scramble says:

    I’ve loved this blog for a very long time. 1st cup of coffee, 1st gander at mudflats. Last beer, last read at mudflats. If the inclusion causes exclusion, I’ll be elsewhere.

  72. tigerwine says:

    With me, it’s a time thing – I barely have time to read and digest all on this blog, without going to others on Mudflats. Most folks will indicate OT, and sometimes these are very interesting subjects, even if they are OT. Most folks will get right back OT if they aren’t interested. I love this site, and have such a deep respect for AKM, that I want to keep it just like it is!

  73. Ripley in CT says:

    2 cents:

    I love this blog. I love the comraderie. I also love the way the conversations go, especially when they are on topic. Are there wildly off topic posts? Yes, and when I see them, I usually just skip on by. I can say I do not enjoy it much when the conversation is moving along swimmingly, and all of a sudden, we get what feels like “spam” with an update that had NOTHING to do with anything anyone has said. Throws the train off the track, as it were. Granted, sometimes it is a juicy bit, but I think the forum could be used for that type of thing.

    The forum: I find it cumbersome at times, especially to find somewhere I was once, and wanted to go back. I never remember which major title it’s under; there are so many. Still, there are a ton of cool conversations over there, too, also.

    Perhaps chucking wildly OT things to the flats for a little while, with a gentle reminder to stay on or near topic, will help. I dunno. I’d hate to see people leave because it’s too heavily moderated. Often something will come to mind after reading a comment, and things just “happen” with the thought-train. That creativity is a wonderful thing, and lends credibility to people’s posts.

    I think that people need to limit posts to their own words, not copy/pastes of articles. Just the link would be good. That stuff takes up wayyyy too much room, no matter how good it is.

    Ok, so that’s more than 2 cents, but hey, you asked!

  74. AKMFan says:

    If you found that last comment from me jarring and confusing and out of place, that is exactly how people might feel when they read the comments on say – coal – and find something about Bristol Palin. 🙂

    I did exactly what I do when something comes on tv I don’t like or I hit a post that doesn’t interest me. I scrolled right on by it.

    I personally, do not get into the song lyrics thing. They are very well done, but music is not my thing and I often don’t know what the tune being used is so it loses something for *me*. When there is one that I do know, I usually read through it (which is how I know they are well done).

    If you were watching TV and something came on that you didn’t like would you watch it or change the channel? It’s not hard to take a little responsibility and just scroll on by the items that don’t interest you.

    This is a personal pet peeve of mine, because I have been on many blogs/forums for a wide variety of topics and invariably when a community starts to develop, people get all uptight about OT stuff.

    Then the person(s) running the blog/forum decide they have to change things and usually what happens is there is less of a community feel/spirit and one of the things that made the blog enjoyable no longer is because there will be people that suddenly feel the need to police every thread for OTness and then either “tattle” that so-and-so is OT or to post in the thread screaming about the OT and thus making more OT because people will then defend the person that was OT from the OT police.

    I would hate to see this happen to Mudflats. I also think that anyone that decides that AKM’s points are invalid based on the comments section (which is a bunch of random people and not AKM) probably aren’t people that are coming to the blog for the right reasons in the first place and if it wasn’t the comments that they used to try and invalidate her points, it would be something else.

    I don’t post all that often, but I do read several times a day.

  75. crystalwolf aka caligrl says:

    here_in_PA Says:
    May 7th, 2009 at 4:55 PM

    OT on the OT topic. lol, I just read in the ADN that GINO is cancelling her weekend plans and that Todd will be taking her place at the salmon tasting and going to the white house event that faux news invited her to.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I think for once GINO is putting AK first! Why I don’t know? There is also a repub thing she is skipping. I think for some reason she knows she better “toe the line” . Those people expecting her are going to be pissed to have dud there (prob. Bristol too)
    But for once, and I don’t know why she is doing the right thing By staying and taking care of biz.

    On the other, I went to I ♥ mudflats and I didn’t see where to post open comments. I think maybe a open post every couple of days and then have whatever on topic post. People can either post on topic, or go to the open thread and post songs, links etc. Breaking news. I love LynnRocketts songs.

  76. GA Peach a/k/a Lance the Boil aka Crust Scramble says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLm3HMG8IhM

  77. Blooper says:

    OT responding to the OT OT comment: Alaskans are wild about their Salmon. Personally I’m not aware of any such specific annual salmon tasting event, but the salmon mythos permeates Alaskan culture like Pineapples and Luaus permeate Hawaiian culture.

  78. Thank you AKM, it could have bitten me, I didn’t see before now.

    How about another link…… next to the comments box?.

    Redwoodmoose @ I like your reasoning for a big noisy room and it can happen at the I Love The Mudflats!……it is been a while since the Flats raised a glass of merlot!

  79. nswfm CA says:

    AKM, your writing is funny, insightful, timely and the list goes on. If you go “corportate” on this blog, people won’t spend all day at work and first thing in the AM and last thing at night following the blog.

    Corporations everywhere will rejoice because they will have their employees’ productivity back, sales will increase and the country, followed by the world, will come out of the recession!

    Think of what you have accomplished in creating this community and the power you have, AKM and moderators! Also, too, thank you for what you’ve done so far and have up your sleeve.

    I voted for the daily open thread. I’ve gone to the forum and have asked people to meet me there, but if they don’t know what to do and how, you’ll miss out on the conversation that may be timely/relevant to the thread.

    It’s your blog, obviously, and people will support what you do, but I think you’ll have to promise to send out a blast email when Palin’s crash turns in to a burn. People are waiting to see that happen, and if this site gets “too corporate,” thereby driving people away, you’ll miss people. Some people will likely swear off their addiction to the Mudflats. It would be a shame, IMHO. I HEART MUDFLATS, the way it is!

  80. here_in_PA says:

    OT on the OT topic. lol, I just read in the ADN that GINO is cancelling her weekend plans and that Todd will be taking her place at the salmon tasting and going to the white house event that faux news invited her to. I don’t know about anyone else but, this just makes me mad. Who is Todd to take her place. The salmon tasting, is this supposed to be an Alaskan thing? What are everyones thoughts on this one?

  81. ENOUGHwiththetrainwreck says:

    see – i didn’t notice the posts that were “off-topic”……..maybe a few extra songs on some days. but those seem to be directly “on-topic” cause they are usually about sarah palin. our little poetess….poet laureate – its cool.

    i either read ’em or i don’t.
    (that is what the mouse is for on the scroll bar thingee)

    actually, i think someone should save them all and do a fundraiser for something. i could probably be easily talked into buying a little zine of mudflats songs.

    i love when folks jump in and give links to breaking news.

    seems like sometimes we are dead serious and sometimes we have a bit of fun. i like it. nice mix.

    i confess that i have only been over to i heart mudflats once — i will make an effort to add it to my daily dose of internet news.

  82. mwThatOne.. says:

    Maybe if all the OT went to the I heart Mudlats place we would go over there…..I tried the forum a while back, and it works fine if one has the time. Most days, to read AKM’s post and wade through the comments, well that is all the time I can take. If the comments here were mostly ontopic & short, and there was a place to go for lynnrockets songs and OT stuff elsewhere, I’d go…..but only after my regular routine ~ and, maybe the OT arena would inspire future posts, who knows….
    The good compromise for now seems to be to do the alternate day open thread…..works okay for me……

  83. Michelle (Seagull Junker Palin) says:

    After I read the great info & writing of AKM, what I really enjoy are the links posted that keeps us up to date with all the info – this morning I was jumping from Mudflats to the NYT, back to Mudflats etc. I want this to continue – but do think it should be in an “open forum” type of thingy. Thanks!!

  84. InterestedPerson says:

    I don’ t mind the OT inserts because 1] they are easy enough to skip, or
    2] they get called out as such
    3] they evolve back into the main thread

    and although I do use the Forum and find it easy to navigate, there is just so much
    there that I don’t return to the Flatland where I live for hours; and restricting myself
    to Mudflats, and AnonymousBloggers usually requires as much self-discipline as I have.
    I do expect to go more to I HEART mudflats.

    I don’t know whether it is reasonable for AKM or Snoskred or any moderator to be
    the blog police as far as staying on topic; so would hope that periodic reminders
    from them, and community agreement to remind each other, and to protect with
    words anyone who gets shot down for bring us back to topic.

  85. Blooper says:

    problem child:

    I have to agree. While sometimes distracting, I have noticed that *most* OT comments are still at least political in nature.

    I think that adding a small chatroom may redirect some of the smaller “cross chatter” from the main comment areas but still allow people to feel like they are being heard.

    Ideas, ideas. =)

  86. PalinSucks says:

    I am one of the more guilty of off topic and losing focus, on a thread. The NOVELTY of posting & not getting deleted or banned had me going wild with excitement. Apologies. I lost control.

    Seeing, Mudflats, making such a splash, being recognized in international medias is an asset to the ultimate goal of eliminating, Palin, from public office.

    I think keeping forums flowing so mainstream news outlets can and will peruse, is a good thing.

    Reading these exchanges, I believe the moderators are sincere in their efforts of wanting to accommodate all personalities & thoughts while maintaining a space that is enjoyable, as well as functional to all audiences.

    Informing, keeping Alaskan issues in the public eye while we have these self serving egomaniacs with their paws on the state purse strings is essential to the health of Alaska.

    If possible an easily accessible open thread would be awesome. I hope no one is getting hard feelings or taking suggestions about limiting post personal. Doesn’t seem like anyone is being told not to participate, just to do so in the most, relevant way.

    Mudflats to me is a combination of hilarity, education, talent, genius and family. Very rare to find anywhere else or dulicate.

    Love to all!!!

  87. LurkerInWI says:

    I’m with Georgia Peach and samper… OT comments are just part of the conversation here. I don’t have time to visit so many other sites, and often don’t visit open thread comments – I like to read AKM’s (and guest’s) posts and the comments that grow from them. I don’t post much, but I visit several times a day.

  88. SMR says:

    I like the expandable comments idea. I like the daily open thread idea with a big yellow button on the bar or something like that that makes it easy to find.

    I don’t like the idea that this should be held to on-topic posts, as that is pretty subjective in some cases, and I would not want myself or others to feel as though they are being watched by the thought/posting police.

    I don’t get bothered by off-topic posts, life is too short. Some of the comments against off-topic posts have been really hateful, and that is far more discouraging than reading (or mostly skipping in my case) the off-topic posts themselves. I find the snarky comments about this issue to be more likely to drive me away from this site than the posts in question.

    I like AKM’s writing style & info, AKM’s dedication and content, however, I do not want to see this site devolve into a soul-less on-topic-only discussion threads blog. That would be a real shame.

    My 2 cents.

  89. oh, we could also develop a code indicating to go to the comments on ILTM:

    ….Untied
    ….Pants off
    ….ILTMF

    ?

  90. redwoodmuse says:

    snoskred…I will add, it has been somewhat disappointing for all of us to see the lack of comments on iheart. We’ve put a lot of work in over there, and people have submitted some brilliant stuff to us. 🙁 If there is no encouragement and support from ya’all, the concept will likely die off. And I really want to say that it is all about giving YOU a place to express your thoughts, feelings, etc – and you can do it as a post that everyone can see.
    ————
    I can understand your disappointment, but picture, if you will, a table full of hearty, smart, informed and funny souls with deep conversations on one side and much hilarity on the other side but all sitting at the same table. Now, the manager comes over and says, “Sorry, this table is only for (deepens voice) serious topics and only one per table. The rest of you *must* go sit somewhere else.” It isn’t much fun to be sent off to another area away from all the scintillation…and the Guiness doesn’t go down as easily. Maybe another pub…..?
    I don’t know about others on this thread, but I live in a very conservative town of less than 1600 hundred souls, most of who don’t read and are belligerantly anti-intellectual. The internet and conversations (on all topics) such as I found here were lifesavers for me. I already have to censor myself and carefully parse my statements in order to get along comfortably with the folks in my community. I can’t bear to have to do the same on the internet.
    That being said, of course, it’s your blog and that is part of what makes it special. AKM et al have tapped a nerve and resonated with some wonderful folks from all walks of life. I learned lots of things I never knew and the brilliant research and reporting being done here is unsurpassed. But, I’m inclined to sit at the noisy table in the pub or coffeehouse, the one with lots of free-flowing cross talk and much hilarity. Still, my mama raised me right. I follow all rules when I can, and when I find them too constricting I remove myself.

    Apologies for the novel, snoskred. You’re doing a great job. Don’t mean to imply otherwise. Just wanted you to understand. Some of us drink one glass of water at a time and some of us dive into the pool.

    I’m a diver.

  91. Lee323 says:

    31 BigPete Says:
    May 7th, 2009 at 3:52 PM “In my opinion, the occasional off topic comment is not so much the problem, as are the ‘habitual and systemic’ abuses. We shouldn’t be too stifling and lose the “life is like a box of chocolates” fun element.”
    ——————————

    I agree…..even if I’m not sure how to define “habitual and systemic” abuses.

    I must add that while I prefer on-topic posts in general….I get a huge kick out of the various posters’ personalities coming through. (Martha UYS…..don’t you go “saving it” only for your hubby now. You’re one of the chocolates in that box, gal.)

  92. I view the forum as a private club.

    I really, really want everyone to give consideration to posting off topics in the comments section of I love the mudflats – I now, I’m losing this one since is the option with less votes so far – but, I like this option because
    We’re already signed up.
    The site offers a variety of topics we can peruse and comment while waiting for the next thread on the Mudflats.
    The freedom to post about anything will be great for one- liners with limited range of expression, like myself, who can’t always clarify but feel compel to say present!. After all I was yanked out of lurking by M. Doogan………..could go back to it …but is hard.

    Wheres is the link to I love the mudflats from this site?

    It’s right in the side bar over there under Fun Stuff =============> I will make it bigger and easier to find. AKM

  93. Snoskred says:

    Snoskred: Since we’re on the topic of site moderation, I Just wanted to thank you for being a kind admin.

    Thanks!

    It’s not an easy job, that is for sure. I do feel a great sense of responsibility to AKMuckraker and the flats, which is why I personally find the extra OT stuff hard to handle. Sure, breaking news, I get that.. but I don’t think it is cool when people abuse AKMuckrakers hospitality.

    Bottom line is – the blog belongs to AKMuckraker, and whatever decision AKM makes I will abide by it. If that is (as suggested in the post) that off topic posts are deleted from threads, then I’ll back AKM 100% on that decision, and I have to say I think it is actually the right one for the blog overall.

    I will add, it has been somewhat disappointing for all of us to see the lack of comments on iheart. We’ve put a lot of work in over there, and people have submitted some brilliant stuff to us. 🙁 If there is no encouragement and support from ya’all, the concept will likely die off. And I really want to say that it is all about giving YOU a place to express your thoughts, feelings, etc – and you can do it as a post that everyone can see.

    If everyone shows up to look, that is. 😉

  94. .
    Why not try expandable threaded comments?
    .

  95. UK Lady says:

    Redwoodmuse you come back here right now!, pretty please!

    I am sure AKM will look at the votes, we are democrats after all, and think hard about giving us a daily open thread, then you can even take your pants off as well as you tie 😉

  96. Blooper says:

    Definitely our loss, redwoosmuse. I wish you’d reconsider, but if not, take care and I wish you the best!

  97. redwoodmuse says:

    Good luck to everyone. Hope all the flooding stops and Palin never gets re-elected. I think I’m out of here. Scroll buttons or tv off buttons have always allowed me to skip what doesn’t seem relevant. I relish the free-for-all connections and wild creativity. Off to see if I can find it somewhere else. You all are doing a great job, but it’s beginning to feel like my favorite local pub just sold out to the big corporation. And I never was much for wearing ties….too constricting. AKM and others, you created a wonderful thing. Sorry to see it changing. I look forward to seeing some of you commenting elsewhere, cause I’ll miss all the quick thinking. But, I just can’t wear a tie.

    All the best to all of you,

    redwood muse

    It’s not changing. We operated this way during the latter part of the election when many left because the comments ran too far afield. It’s actually my fault for not keeping up with it. So it’s more of a “return to the classic”. I’ve never been called a “big corportation” before!
    😉 Things will be fine. Just trying to find the best way.
    AKM

  98. Professor Geezer says:

    Hey, watching KO now. JOE THE PLUMBER is leaving the GOP! 🙂 Talk about re-branding…

  99. Blooper says:

    Hmm. Regarding comments, you could do as the ADN does and add a complaint button next to each post. But then all the Meat Haras members would come here and complain all of our posts back into the digital ether. 😉

  100. austintx says:

    snoskred.

  101. Blooper says:

    Snoskred: Since we’re on the topic of site moderation, I Just wanted to thank you for being a kind admin. There are so many sites out there that are moderated with the subtlety of a jack hammer and the kindness of a mama bear with lipstick.

    I like how, when you have to put the hammer down, at least you put a cotton ball on the tip to soften the blow.

    *Raises a virtual guiness to Snoskred*.

  102. womanwithsardinecan says:

    Yeah, it is comforting to know that I can say something really stupid and not be deleted and banned.
    Like….it’s time for sushi!!

  103. austintx says:

    snoksred – Get a used computer……..the answer could be there……..
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/06/data-loss-lockheed-missile-defence

  104. BigPete says:

    It’s a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside of an enigma.

    In my opinion, the occasional off topic comment is not so much the problem, as are the ‘habitual and systemic’ abuses. We shouldn’t be too stifling and lose the “life is like a box of chocolates” fun element.

    The solution might be to ban all abuses and then have some tolerance for minor infractions.

  105. Rob in Ca says:

    Oh, and Snoskred: what happened next after they fixed the tail fins?

  106. womanwithsardinecan says:

    Actually I found that weird moon thing quite giggling. I even tilted my head for a new perspective. lol. do you mind if I ask what a redstone is? Okay, I’m easily distracted, but I really want to know. Sorry. My entire life is off topic.
    Kenneth, what is the frequency?

  107. Rob in Ca says:

    I have to say, it is the moderation that makes this blog such a compelling place to be. Not to discount AKM’s writing. But without the moderation, this would be a nasty, racist, angry place like my local newspaper’s online comments.

    So, I think we can all rest assured that there is no danger that the blog police are going to come and sweep up all of our comments that are slightly off focus from the blog topic. At the same time, I certainly think it is good to keep SOME focus on the topic, because sometimes I find I am scrolling past so much off-topic content that I forget the topic. So finding a quick and efficient way for us to go off-topic with basically one click, would be perfect I think, if combined with some gentle moderation changes that increase the pressure to stay on topic….

  108. Madcity Chick says:

    A tad OT, but Alaska releated. Huff post and CNN reporting GINO staying home this weekend to deal with the flood.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/07/palin-pulls-out-of-white-house-correspondents-dinner/

  109. Snoskred says:

    If you found that last comment from me jarring and confusing and out of place, that is exactly how people might feel when they read the comments on say – coal – and find something about Bristol Palin. 🙂 Or if they are reading about the mayoral election and find song lyrics about Sarah Palin.

    It was an excerpt from one of my favourite books – Failure is not an option by Gene Kranz.

    And putting that into context here – Man flew to and walked on the moon. That took a lot of effort from a lot of people. The Mudflats is kinda like that now – there are a lot of people working behind the scenes to make it all happen.

    If man can land on the moon, we can keep the comments on topic. 😉

  110. samper says:

    Wow… just that fast, the post I referred to changed to #15… it’s the one about the opossums.

    Sorry for any confusion!

  111. samper says:

    #17… Could you BE more off topic???? LOL!!!

    My feeling is that I like all the comments… on or off topic. When the mood strikes, post away!

    Plus, we don’t have to go “elsewhere” for the frivolous, silly, and yet insightful comments.

    Allow the OT discussions on the main pages… no one misses anything that way!

    One stop shopping!

    Long time reader, seldom poster.

  112. Rob in Ca says:

    Scrolling down to find yesterday’s open thread can be a little awkward, which is why people, I think, don’t go off to the forum either when they have a burning desire to post on another topic.
    How about having a link to the current open thread always available at the top of the right side column on the page? Okay, how about right UNDER ‘Make a Donation’ then?

  113. UK Lady says:

    Just my two cents, a daily open thread for off topic stuff sounds great. The forums and love mudflats things are good, but time consuming, sometimes you just have to fly in and out and want to go straight to where you know your friends will be. Just like the local pub or coffee house.

    The Daily KOs does an open thread daily, it works really well, and nobody could accuse them of not being serious about their politics.

  114. Blooper says:

    aeroentropy: OT or not, that was actually pretty funny! 🙂

  115. Snoskred says:

    As I was saying to some of you recently, when the four inch flight happened it could have been the complete end of the space program.

    A tentative proposal came from the blockhouse to reconnect the umbilical. The chances of people getting killed doing this were discussed and we decided that it could not be done safely. The next, and equally desperate, suggestion was to get a cherry picker (a kind of crane or boom with a man-holding bucket on the end of it, like those used by telephone and utility line repair crews) and cut the nylon parachute risers. This would at least eliminate the threat of wind filling the parachute and toppling the Redstone, but this idea was also discarded because of the risk to personnel. All the while we were apprehensively watching a partially inflated parachute and praying that the sea breeze did not pick up, fill the parachute, and topple the whole damn rocket over.

    After impatiently listening to a pretty far-out proposal to depressurize the rocket by using a rifle to shoot holes in the fuel and oxidizer tanks, Kraft sputtered and growled, “Dammit, that’s no way to do it! They sound like a bunch that just started spring training!” Even to a rookie like me, shooting a hole in the tanks did not seem to be a sound plan.

    Kraft listened intently as each of the crazy schemes came across the loops, everybody desperately searching for a way out. Then one of the test conductors came up with a plan that made sense. “The winds are forecast to remain calm, so if we wait until tomorrow morning, the batteries will deplete, the relays and valves will go to the normally open condition. As the oxidizer warms up, the tank vents will open, removing the flight pressure. With the booster depressurized and batteries depleted, it will then be safe to approach the rocket.”

    Kraft nodded and growled at his controllers, “That is the first rule of flight control. If you don’t know what to do, don’t do anything!” We secured Mercury Control and the blockhouse gang got saddled with the unenviable job of nervously watching over the Redstone throughout the night. “Doing nothing” worked: by early the next morning, the batteries were depleted, the destruct system disarmed, and the pressure relieved. The capsule and the Redstone rocket had survived with only minor damages to the tail fins.

  116. seattlefan says:

    I voted! I like the idea of the semi daily open thread for “anything goes”. Although I have been to the forum, I like the freshness of the open thread because people are responding and all in the same place at the same time. In the forum you have to navigate around to see what is being said about different things, and it just isn’t as “real time” for me.

    That said, I will respect whatever the consensus is because I love this site and how inspiring, fun and educational it is. Thanks for giving us a chance to give some input. Hope it helps!

  117. aeroentropy says:

    (sometimes I find the off thread posts a little jarring, a bit interruptive of discussion of the actual subject)

  118. womanwithsardinecan says:

    I love I heart the Mudflats (is that some sort of double love?), but it doesn’t have enough posts fast enough (I have become addicted to posts now Now NOW), so it doesn’t fill the gap. That’s why I’m voting for more open threads for just spreading out and going nuts. I am a free-association type. One thing leads to another. Doesn’t take long for me to be completely off topic. Plus I do love the songs and poems and just crazy stuff that comes out of peoples’ mouths. There is no perfect answer. But I vote for the mudbox (like a sandbox to play in, but more clay and water). Keeps me from wanting AKM to stay up all night, every night, creating posts to inform and entertain us.

  119. ericmiami says:

    My wife and I love you, AKM, and what you do. And the skill with which you do it. We are not easily impressed, as in, “this is not our first rodeo.”
    We’ll gladly acquiesce with where your heart leads you on this.

  120. aeroentropy says:

    Another reason for this belief is the shape of the male opossum’s [male genitalia]. It is bifurcated, like a 2 pronged fork. It was believed that the shape of the [male genitalia] was a perfect fit for the female opossum’s nose. This isn’t true either. The female has an internal, bifurcated reproductive tract as well.

    http://www.opossumsocietyus.org/opossum_reproduction_and_life_cycle.htm

  121. Basheert says:

    The Candie’s Foundation Tax Returns – all 501(c)3s are required by law to put their tax returns online. It is just a matter of looking at their donations and how much they spend on NON-programs (i.e. Administrations and SALARIES):

    http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/esearch.php

    Just type in Candies Foundation. It appears that Mr.Cole takes over $500K in Salary (I believe that is on Page 10) – which is a BIG salary for a 501(c)3

  122. Blooper says:

    Sorry to post again so soon, I just had one more idea that, while seemingly unfair, may be the only really fair solution.

    Disable commenting on all AKM posts and only allow people to post in the daily off topic section. (Like this idea will ever fly!).

    *BOO!!! HISS!!*

    OK, back to my corner now.

  123. Moose Pucky says:

    Some flexibility and tolerance, also, too.

  124. austintx says:

    I voted – do I get a sticker ?? Every thing problem child said works for me……….and thank you AKM and crew for letting us share here !!

  125. redwoodmuse says:

    Obviously, I’ll go with the majority since I’m a guest here, but…I’m with Professor Geezer. I think a lot of the OT is inspired by something someone else has posted, like a great long afternoon of conversation over coffee. I’d hate to lose the OT and most seem to be labeled as such. I did register, but the Forum doesn’t feel as friendly.

    I can see why you might want to dress the blog up nice for the national attention (and very well deserved I might add), so I’ll probably join Martha Unalaska Yard Sign and just go back to lurking.

    You are doing a fantastic job and it is your blog, so do what you think is right.

  126. Blooper says:

    I think people are not going to I Heart Mudflats or the Mudflats forumsn to post their off comment material because, in all honesty, most of the action is on the main site.

    People want to be heard, and probably think their comment/link/material won’t be noticed as much on the other sites. It seems there’s nothing like being in the spotlight, if only for a brief moment. (And yes, I’m totally guilty of wanting to be in the comment spotlight from time to time). I have posted off topic before, and I’ll do my part to monitor the pertinence of my comments in the future.

    Just some honest thoughts and thanks for asking for our input!

  127. GA Peach a/k/a Lance the Boil aka Crust Scramble says:

    I’m from Ga., and a longtime mudpuppy, but I’m not sure I’ve got a dog in this fight. I will fight tooth and nail to keep sarah, bless her heart, OUT of national politics.

    I didn’t vote, because my choice isn’t up there. I don’t mind OT if it is an interesting link re: palin. When OT becomes a conversation, I scroll on down out of there. Usually an astute mudpuppy brings us back to topic.

    I’m really not interested in her family’s foibles although they do have my sympathy.

  128. Martha Unalaska Yard Sign says:

    I don’t do forums, either – but I sure LOVE the PM system, thank you very much for the ease that gives us in contacting each other!

  129. Martha Unalaska Yard Sign says:

    AKM – you do an outstanding job with your blog, and it DOES most certainly warrant media and national attention! I do enjoy the various links, and the comedy – but I’m a local, so that makes sense. I’ll just stick to catching up w/ your posts and keep my goofiness to myself (actually my husband will be thrilled). Your blog will only continue to be more popular, and I can touch base w/ Mudpuppies when needed through the PM system which is such a great part of the forum. You have all done such a professional and amazing job here – it’s kind of an Alaskan trademark now and so, so important to keep progressing this dialogue!

  130. InJuneau says:

    I do love the songs, as much as we get off topic sometimes. It would be good to have some place around to make sure we still see things like that.

  131. Professor Geezer says:

    I love your blog, and your writing. I think it inspires a lot of riffing and sniffing, which might be stopped if we are always going to be on topic?

  132. CO almost native says:

    You’re right; there is not a perfect answer. Lots of mudpuppies with different perspectives- that is part of the beauty of Mudflats. (off-topics: Isn’t this how the Forum came about?)

    I also use the Forum- especially to chat about off-topics that become long-term topics…catfood jello, anyone? Sign up, sign on, jump in 🙂