George Tiller Killed: Abortion Doctor Shot At Church

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[Lucy]

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/31/george-tiller-killed-abor_n_209504.html

 Remember when people sent donations in the name of SP to Planned Parenthood.
What if donations were sent to Planned Parenthood every time a doctor is shot because he or she performs an abortion. 

  The other group (I hate referring to them as pro-life as if those who oppose them aren't pro-life.  And I hate to refer to them as anti-abortion as if those who oppose them think abortion is a good thing - rather than a difficult decision under difficult circumstances.  I need a better identifier, but getting back on topic...)   Their actions have had a chilling effect on the availability of abortion.  So can those who support the availability of abortion find a way to make it against the interest who oppose the availability of abortion to harm abortion providers.  Every time they shoot someone it raises money for abortion providers.

[Irishgirl]

Doesn't it send a confusing message. Shoot dead a doctor who performs abortions!! Where is the sanctity of life in this.

[old salt]

Bill Oreilley has been demonizing this man for years.  I would be willing to bet the nut case that did this is a big follower of Mr. Oreilley.  For those of you who don't follow Greta Van Susteren...you should see some of the disgusting comments on her blog about this murder.  Makes you wonder if these God fearing right wingers really do believe in God.

[ds55]

Bill Oreilley has been demonizing this man for years.  I would be willing to bet the nut case that did this is a big follower of Mr. Oreilley.  For those of you who don't follow Greta Van Susteren...you should see some of the disgusting comments on her blog about this murder.  Makes you wonder if these God fearing right wingers really do believe in God.

Aren't there laws against incitement to violence?

[Forty Watt]

Randall Terry, Operation Rescue Founder, is concerned About Obama's reaction to Tiller's Murder

"George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

President Obama is the one potentially guilty of intimidation.  The intimidation engaged in by Operation Rescue is justifiable.
Abortion is murder.  The cold blooded killing of a man walking into church is justifiable.

There is nowhere to have any sort of conversation with Randall Terry and those who believe as he does.

[pacos_gal]

These are extremest anti abortion nuts, who think that it is okay to commit acts of violence against anyone who doesn't believe as they do, righteous murder.   Often they are urged onwards and find excuses in the rhetoric engaged in by the far right talkers (tv and radio).  I've read some of the comments on some of the web sites that make a rational person sick to their stomachs at the blatant responses to todays murder. 
Mr. Tiller isn't the first abortion doctor to be killed, so far there have been 5 doctors murdered in the United States.  There have been others who have worked at clinics killed also.  Arson and bombs, kidnapping, nothing is too extreme for some of these wack jobs.   
One thing is correct in the statement by Randall Terry, it is rhetoric and if someone is killed because of it, then it is "effective rhetoric".  No logical conversations can be had with those who think violence is the answer to any issue they disagree with. 
Aren't they just as guilty for the actions they inspire?  I think they are. 

[daMamma]

I would like to say that Dr. Tiller's murder was shocking, but it is not.  It is the natural conclusion to the hate, ends justify the means rhetoric.  Over the years we have seen things go from simply accosting anyone going into a women's health clinic that provides abortions as a part of their reproductive care, to bombings, shootings and a whole host of other things.  The ends justify the means.  I can not tell you how many times I have heard that killing a doctor that provides abortion for any reason is a just cause as it would save the lives of countless unborn.

When ever access is limited in distance to a clinic those that would be on the protesting against these facilities scream at the top of their lungs about their "free speech" rights.  Forgetting the right of privacy of the people they accost. 

Some of these people are absolutely insane. 

My condolences to Dr. Tiller's family.  What a horrible shame.

[Jaime from Wasilla]

Just like they try to hijack the issue by defining the terms as "pro-life", we must recognize that they are not really anti-abortion - they are ANTI-CHOICE.  They are against a woman being sovereign unto herself, and against the availability of medically safe abortion.  They would rather a woman die than a foetus be aborted.  They insist on calling a foetus a baby.  It is not.  I don't want to get into a discussion about when a foetus becomes a baby - that is not my point in this discussion. I am talking about no longer allowing the christianists to set the terms of the rhetoric. They do not get to define this issue with the inflammatory and inaccurate language they use.

Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.  It means that the availability of medically safe abortion is a better option than a coat hanger.  No one is pro-abortion, but people who live in reality can accept that they will happen, whether they are legal or not.

What I find so pathetic about the so-called social conservatives is that their stand against aqbortion/choice and against gay marriage are both defeated by the same logical reasoning. If you are against abortion, don't have one. If you are against gay marriage, don't have one. But for crying out loud, quit pushing your religious beliefs on every one else.

I will never understand how murdering an adult physician is an acceptable expression of a belief that claims to be pro-life.

Shooting a man at church is just cowardly. Maybe the food and drug administration needs to consider adding anti-depressants to the water supply in areas that are heavily republican.

[yellerdogg]

I know that none of you would think of diminishing Dr. Tiller and the humanitarian services he provided. However referring to him as an abortion doctor is a term used pejoratively by the Anti-Choice cabal. He was a health care professional, an OB/GYN who provided legal and morally/ethically defensible options for many who had nowhere else to turn. He was in the eyes of many a hero.

What happened Sunday in Wichita was an assassination - a killing of a person for an ideological reason.

[sweetlucy47]

I agree with Yellerdog.. I am not sure where He/She is from.. but being from close to where Dr. Tiller was from I can tell you he was much more than an "abortion dr" .

He helped arrange adoptions, he cared for people who had no money, he treated patients in the parking lot when they had an emergency, he took care of anyone no matter who, what or if they had something he should be treating or not. That's what got him in trouble sometimes. But the community loved him.  He was a great man, a great doctor and he served his community well.

He wasn't just an "abortion doctor", he was a DOCTOR, he was a healer.

Also, thanks Jamie.. you have spoken very eloquently.. and your words are very true. You are a wise man.. wise beyond your years.

[pacos_gal]

You are absolutely right.  Saying abortion doctor isn't the correct terminology and I certainly apologize for using it.  He was also a father, a husband, a grandfather, his profession was a doctor.   None of that mattered to the person who murdered him, nor to others who vilified him due to their own beliefs. It only mattered to them, about one procedure.  Now that is narrow minded.   

[Freakout in Kansas]

I lived in Wichita for eight long years and was there for the "Summer of Mercy".  The city welcomed Randall Terry and Operation Rescue with open arms, providing free meals and lodging for the protesters.  As near as I could tell, the protesters were not all that intelligent and were fanatical in their belief, making them an easy makr for a skilled manipulator like Mr. Terry.  One of their favorite tactics (besides tearfully wailing when the police tried to break them up) was to chain themselves together blocking traffic in front of Dr. Tiller's clinic.  Many of them brought their extremely young children who were left crying on the street corner when their parents were arrested  (I am sure many of them have grown up to be potential suicide bombers for their "righteous" cause.) 

Operation Rescue is no better than the Taliban and should be considered a terrorist organization.  Randall Terry should be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.  These people are despicable!   

[ds55]

Code:

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/05/31/roeder/index.html

According to the Associated Press, police have identified the man suspected of murdering abortion provider George Tiller as 51-year-old Scott Roeder of Merriam, Kansas. He is in custody but has not yet been charged with the crime.

Roeder has a history with Kansas law enforcement and with potentially violent political extremism. In 1996, he was stopped and arrested for driving a car without a valid license plate, apparently an act of protest. According to the Kansas City Star, the FBI believed that Roeder was a member of the Montana Freemen, a militia group that engaged in a standoff with authorities. His license plate read:

Sovereign

Private Property

Immunity Declared at Law

Non-Commercial American

Edited to add quote box and reduce length of quote to approx 10% of full article

[ds55]

Code:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/69151.html

Roeder also was a subscriber to Prayer and Action News, a magazine that advocated the justifiable homicide position, said publisher Dave Leach, an anti-abortion activist from Des Moines, Iowa.

[0whole1]

Bill Oreilley has been demonizing this man for years.  I would be willing to bet the nut case that did this is a big follower of Mr. Oreilley.  For those of you who don't follow Greta Van Susteren...you should see some of the disgusting comments on her blog about this murder.  Makes you wonder if these God fearing right wingers really do believe in God.

Since the murder, the Daily Dish has had a interesting series of articles on O'Reilly's role, the right's response, and the likely strengthening of the state's power because of the murder.

[0whole1]

I would like to say that Dr. Tiller's murder was shocking, but it is not.  It is the natural conclusion to the hate, ends justify the means rhetoric. 

The Daily Dish (or an article it cited) mentioned that the Oklahoma City bombings occurred 8 months in to Clinton's first term.  The easy comparison there is that the fringe right lost hope, and belief that the government represented them, and shrugged off the law as not their garment anymore.

Americans when it suits 'em.

Oddly enough, this is a Democratic president who is *very* willing to listen to opposing views, when they are stated in honest (rather than gaming the system), and not in heat.   

[ds55]

Gotta watch Keith Olbermann tonight on MSNBC.
Andrew Sullivan says "I'll be on Olbermann and AC 360 tonight."

[Writing from Alaska]

So very sad - I don't know what else to say and many of you have already added constructively to this discussion. I will only add, that I hope everyone will remember that there are millions of Christians who find this appalling, immoral and completely alien to the Christian faith. Many of them try to speak out on a consistent basis on issues of choice and same sex marriage but are consistently drowned out by the media attention to more extreme views. I hope we can find ways to acknowledge those voices and help them be heard more widely. The polarization is a media sideshow that has taken over the main dialogue nationwide to our great detriment.

[InJuneau]

I've heard them sometimes referred to as "pro-birth" because that's where their point of concern ends.

[ds55]

I hope the FBI and whatever other investigative agencies we have available are infiltrating these crazy groups to identify the biggest losers.

bitter people clinging to their guns and their religion...