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December 2, 2021

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Friday, November 5, 2021

Open Thread – Yay, Death!

Ahh. Nothing warms the cockels of the heart like a room full of bloodthirsty Republicans full-out cheering for the sheer number of people put to death in Texas during the Perry administration. Yeah, it’s cheaper to keep people alive than pay for the extended appeals process of capital cases. Yeah, if you’re wrong you can’t suspend the sentence of the accused because it’s too late. No, the victims’ families usually don’t “feel better” after it’s over. Yes, taxpayer dollars actually get used to murder people, because murder is wrong… And there’s the whole racial disparity thing – only 11% of those put to death are white.

But still, there’s nothing like good ol’ Sparky the electric chair claiming another victim to satisfy some nice old fashioned blood lust. And not just the kind that makes you feel somber and sad for the victims and/or the accused. No, this is the stand up and cheer kind! The woo hoo kind! The “Hang ’em high! YEAH!” kind. Pass the popcorn and enjoy the show.

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56 Responses to “Open Thread – Yay, Death!”
  1. Zyxomma says:

    I was out last night, so I had to look up the transcript of the President’s speech. I was shocked not to find it in The New York Times, who DID print a transcript of the entire Republican debate.

    • Irishgirl says:

      80%! I got the two Michele Bachman questions wrong.

      And I agree with you on this:
      “I am pro life, and I mean it. I am absolutely against the death penalty, and I’m with all those big wigs who have said that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.”

      • Zyxomma says:

        I got one wrong. I couldn’t watch the debate, and wouldn’t have even had my life permitted; I value my normal blood pressure too much. I read the transcript (23 pages!) at the NY TImes, and was disgusted and horrified.

        What frightens me is the possibility that Jeb Bush or Rudy Giuliani might be given the nod because a Perry or a Bachmann is known to be unelectable. Shiver!

        I am totally opposed to the death penalty. Life without the possibility of parole is far more punishing, and far more appropriate.

  2. Baker's Dozen says:

    I am pro life, and I mean it. I am absolutely against the death penalty, and I’m with all those big wigs who have said that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

    Putting a person to death coarsens society. It doesn’t raise us up, and, like the black and white abortion debate, it keeps us from discussion the real issues: Why do we think, as a society, that we have the right to kill of someone whom we have failed to help? Writing off a citizen in that way is writing off someone in our collective family. Stopping abortion also side steps the real issue: how do you make it so women don’t need abortions?

    Neither party address the issues of how we make this a better society–safer for women and children so that they grow up unabused, healthy physically and mentally, and ready to be responsible enough to make good choices so that abortions become only those medically necessary or because a fetus is too sick to live or have anything we’d call a life where happiness can be pursued. These aren’t easy topics, and they don’t have easy, cut an dried answers. But we will progress as a society as we truly begin to address these topics with sincerity and the ability to listen.

    War in this world is, despite our own wars, becoming beautifully less, and it’s because we, as a world society, have become better at talking together and compromise. We need to start this with abortion and death penalty debates, which have become political rallying cries with no one intending to really work on the problem.

    • benlomond2 says:

      BD… I’m all for due process for the accused..yes, mistakes can be made, and every opportunity needs to be made to insure all evidence, etc has been completely examined. However, there are cases where an individual choses NOT to be helped, or simply can’t be helped… and performs heinous acts upon his/her fellow citizens.. some crimes are eligible for the death penalty – Someone like Scott Peterson , who killed his pregnant wife and then dumped her body in the SF Bay is , to me , such an individual. Knowing he did it, yet going thru a candlelite vigil, and seeing his mistress… there’s no rehab for such a person, in my opinion. Let them go thru the appeals to be sure nothing got missed, use any new tech whizzbang procedures… but when that’s done with..
      Charles Manson still goes to parole board hearings…I don’t think he should EVER be let out,,, but because he DOES go to them when he’s eligible, he just MIGHT get out.. That’s a scarey dude,,, even if he is long in the tooth…I know, I’m conjouring up the boogey man… but … I think there is a place and time for the death penalty to be applied….

      • Baker's Dozen says:

        Yes, Charles Manson is a scary dude. I worked at his prison. All the guys there are scary.

        Rehab is great, and I’ve worked in rehab a lot. Most don’t rehabilitate, though. Not until they’ve had a change of heart. I’m talking about before hand. Why does this country raise so many nut cases? The shootings in Norway were notable partly because that just doesn’t happen there. We can do a better job of taking care of people and raising them to be kind and caring. We wouldn’t get 100% good guys, but we could get one heck of a lot closer.

        Manson was convicted when there was no life without parole. I am not for a life term being something short of that. Life term means life. You leave feet first. Manson will never get out, though. He is still really weird. And despite that, it’s cheaper to keep him in prison all these years than to have him on death row.

        We live in a democracy. As much as we may not like it, we are the government, so whatever the government does is what we are in fact doing. I am not interested in injecting anyone or pulling the switch. I find it repugnant and wouldn’t want anyone else to do it for me, just so I don’t have to deal with the emotions that rightfully should go with it.

        Peterson is odious. My daughter lives just a couple of blocks from where he dumped her body. Lock him up, throw away the key, feed him bread and water, take away the girlie magazines, and make him watch informercials 24/7 and sleep on Klingon pain sticks. I hope he lives a good, long life in prison and has not one happy millisecond for the next seventy years there. I hope he has Charles Manson as a roomie. But how do we know justice is served and he’s really paying for the crime if he isn’t here?

    • Zim from Oz says:

      I totally agree with you Bakers.
      We as sane people cannot kill and ever claim that it was right.
      Two wrongs do NOT make a right. It is never right.
      Death is not justice, it does not correct the damage done.
      The death penalty is cruel and barbaric.
      We should expect more from the USA.

  3. Irishgirl says:

    How old is Perry?

  4. carol says:

    Death penalty? I’m mostly against it. It’s final when carried out and if exonerating evidence comes forward, well,too late; it is final. Does it bring closure to the family of the victims? Debatable. Then there are countries that won’t extradite to the US if it is a capital case because the death penalty is a possibility so the crooks continue to go free. Fiscally, now there is an argument that should appeal. It’s cheaper to “life in prison without possiblity of parole” than to continue to litigate/appeal.
    I do think, in certain and probably very rare cases, the death penalty can/should apply.

  5. lacy lady says:

    I am with you Beth and Pat

  6. beth says:

    Did anyone else find the language Perry used to describe the murdered and the murderer(s) in Texas a tad…ummm…odd? Sounded mighty State’s Rights and Separatist, to me. beth.

    • Yes, I think that’s it. I couldn’t put my finger on what it was that sounded so off to me. But that’s it – state’s rights and separatism. Isn’t it too bad that he didn’t talk Texas into seceding when he was mouthing off about it. Then we’d be rid of him and Ron Paul, and a few others who aren’t helpful.

  7. Zyxomma says:

    OK, here’s a rather interesting take on last night’s debacle, I mean debate:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/opinion/debating-with-the-stars.html?src=me&ref=general

    “The debate was at the Reagan library, and no matter what you think of Ronald Reagan, this crew makes him look good. It is the genius of the Republican Party in recent decades that it continually selects candidates who make the ones who went before appear better. Remember how great George H.W. Bush seemed once we’d lived with his son for a while? And I have a strong suspicion that whoever the nominee is this time will make us yearn for the magic that was W.”

  8. Zyxomma says:

    It is up to US to make sure that disillusioned Democrats and liberal-leaning independents go to the polls in ’12. Do everything in your power to get out the vote.

    I shudder at the thought of any of these RWNJs in the White House. I shudder even harder at the thought that the GOTP bigwigs may decide that Michele/Perry/whomever is unelectable, and a “savior” steps up to the plate with the T-party “frontrunner” as VP. In case you’re wondering, I mean some jerk like Jeb Bush or Rudy Giuliani. Yuck.

    Rick Perry is a scary monster. His audience last night (I’m only going by the video clip; I did not watch the debate) is even scarier.

  9. Dia says:

    Some guy named Hedley is in a comic strip named Doonesbury attempting to tweet an advanced copy of some book titled The Rogue and some decades-long friend of Roger Ailes is bragging he’ll have Roger thwack anyone who pre-releases anything from his book.

    Hubris, anyone?

  10. Alaska Pi says:

    Mr Perry is hitching his star to a well worn set of arguments about the death penalty which do nothing to insure justice for those murdered , fair trials for those accused, and safer communities for all of us.
    His audience’s cheers reflect an incredible lack of reflection and a supreme indifference to the gravity of questions surrounding state sponsored death.
    Not Mr Perry, not his audience, not a one of them has thought through the failures of the justice system on this subject but every one of them feels snug and safe that they have followed the process adequately and by jiminy , we’re-all-safer-and-the-bad-guys-have-paid.
    These are the same wahoos , who to feel safe, blame the victim of far too many crimes, criminalize more and more behavior, and won’t fund anything which can be shown to effectively deter crime.
    PFFFFFFTTTTTTT!!!!!!
    The murder of someone I love, care about, or know has touched, torn, and fractured my own life 6 times, the most recent being the murder of my beloved nephew 2 years ago.
    I take no comfort in Mr Perry’s BS pride in flawed process and accountability nor do I find correspondence with any notion of justice which makes sense in his smug rendition of how-and-why-we-do-this.
    Those who want vengance are at least being honest, though I disagree with them.
    Mr Perry is dishonest (and a bunch of other things that wouldn’t pass the filters here ).

    benlomond2- I feel terrible about your neighbor and I do know how it feels to look at someone who has no remorse. Breathe deep. Think some more.

    This took a long, long time to catch these SOBs and local law didn’t allow for a jail sentence which felt right for the crime against Kaye and all of us who loved her or the community it happened in but I do think it would have been worse for all if the death sentence muddied the stakes.
    We all had had time to grieve for our loss, work through the horror of what her last hours must have been, and come to remember what we so loved about her, including that uproarious laugh that went on and on until tears of mirth spilled out of her blue, blue eyes.
    It was so terribly, awfully sad but we could finally say goodbye with clean hearts and minds.

    http://gphs61.com/memorial/Obituaries/Kaye%20Gray%20Turner.htm

  11. lacy lady says:

    What a creep! And how could the people in the audience cheer? Unbelievable.
    I read somewhere a man was put to death in Texas for burning his house down , killing his children .
    But that new evidence was found that may have cleared him of wrong doing, and Perry refused to stop the excuction .
    I didn’t watch the debate last night, but found it on the internet and could only stand to watch for about 5 mins. Sounds like they think they have all the answers.
    Today on Cnn, the people in congress thinks that our President doesn’t need to get his address tonight—–that a letter would be suffice. They want to watch the football game. That’s o.k.–just sit home and watch the game guys —-who cares about people without a job—-as long as you have your job, get your retirement & all the other perks.

    • The only reason any of them should miss being there in person is if someone in their immediate family is being born, dying or getting married. I wouldn’t fault any of them for missing for the birth of their own child, the marriage of their own child or the death of a very close family member (cousins twice removed or Great Uncle Willard you haven’t seen in 10 years, not so much).

      But seriously, to stay home to watch a football game? Hmphf!

      • leenie17 says:

        Even if they’re making a point by being disrespectful towards the President (which is unacceptable), what they forget is that they also are being disrespectful to the people who put them in office. Unless there is a really good reason (like the ones you mentioned), I want the representatives I voted into office doing their job and sitting in their nice cushy chairs in Congress, listening to every word the President says.

        Note to legislators: I don’t care if you agree with the plan or not. I don’t care if you like the President or loathe him. Your job is to sit there and listen.

        You don’t have to applaud. You don’t have to stand up. But you damn well better have your well-paid little butt in the chair because I’m paying you to be there!

        How dare you show such contempt for the thousands of unemployed and underemployed citizens of this country by blowing off an address to Congress about jobs because you have your panties in a twist! Grow up and DO YOUR JOB!

        • Zyxomma says:

          A football game? Really? What’s the matter, you never heard of a VCR and videotape, or you didn’t want to pay for Tivo? I don’t believe you; I’m sure you program the Tivo to record every time you’re going to appear on TV.

          Afraid you’ll hear the results of the game before you can get home to watch? Don’t look at the papers, and don’t turn on the radio.

          I’ve had it, as you can see.

  12. benlomond2 says:

    We have a trial starting next month for the murder of a 7 month pregnent store clerk. Small town, many knew the young lady- only market in town…bludgened and choked with a rope, body found off side of the road-suspect is a married co-workerwith a lovely wife and 3 small children. too mant details to go into here, but the death penalty seems appropriate to me in this case… I played softball with the guy for 8 years, and we were friends with his wife’s family. My viewpoint is not one of vengance, but of justice and the realization that if this guy ever got out of prison, someone would be hurt or killed again = he has no consience to speak of., or evidence of remorsefor his actions.

    • John says:

      there are no good solutions to this type of violance. I understand the desire to want to see justice done. But the risk that the accused might be innocent and still be killed by the state tips my scale against the death penalty. The guilty ones can plead to the crime and get life in prison instead. The innocent accused people have a harder time doing that because they know they are innocent regardless of the circumstantial evidence against them. And then I think th at putting them in jail might be an even worse punishment considering the conditions in most of our prisons in this country. the illegal drugs, the fights, the rapes — I don’t want prison to be a fun vacation, but it shouldn’t be as bad as it is.

  13. jimzmum says:

    Sick-making. Truly, sick-making.

  14. beth says:

    AKM — shouldn’t that read: “Yeah, it’s cheaper to execute the convicted than pay for the extended appeals process of capital cases,” rather than: “keep people alive”? Isn’t the point that Perry has absolutely no qualms about executing a wrongfully convicted person – that he’s not concerned about their innocence…they were found guilty, why shilly-shally around wasting everyone’s time and money: execute ’em? beth.

    • bigdayqueen says:

      Actually, AKM is correct. All convicted persons who are sentenced to the death penalty are automatically guaranteed an appeal. In fact, many get several appeals which can go all the way up to the Supreme Court. Most often , the legal expenses for both sides are covered by the state and this could add up to hundreds of thousands. And the fact of the matter is, except for Texas, most of them end up dying in prison of natural causes. So, practically speaking, a life sentence without any chance for parole should appeal more to a fiscally conservative individual.

      • beth says:

        Thanks for the clarification, bigdayqueen. My mind, reeling, again, at Perry’s insufferable pov on the issue (ie – quick, let’s get ‘er done!–let’s get rid of this murderer!), was thinking about governors issuing stays of executions if there was/is even the itty-bittiest hint of innocence…and/or, because they [the governors] are decent human beings. beth.

        • Did anyone else catch the way he answered the question? He started that tirade with “If you come into our state . . .” I thought that was an odd way to talk about people who are accused of murder – as if no one who is a legal citizen in Texas would do that. What was that all about, or is that just Perry’s style, to automatically make any person who is accused the “other” and therefore somehow not worthy of his losing sleep over the possibility he might have exucuted an innocent man.

          I mean no offense to Texans here, but I really can’t stand that bigger and better than all the rest of you attitude that Perry has. It’s very grating and reminds me of a few Texans I once knew.

  15. merrycricket says:

    I didn’t watch the debates. I don’t plan on watching much of this circus because I don’t want to “accidentally” throw something at my tv. Even thinking about watching makes my a$$ tired. Rain today and I’m off to the wonderful world of retail.

  16. I didn’t watch the whole debate. I hadn’t intended to watch any of it, but there it was. I thought that response from Perry that he slept well at night knowing that someone had been executed was pretty creepy. But it was really creepy when the audience clapped and cheered. And apparently we weren’t the only ones who thought so, as one of the follow up quesions addressed the audience reaction to someone’s death.

    I have a hard time saying we shouldn’t have a death penalty. I grew up 8 miles from Holcomb, Kansas, where the Clutter family was murdered. I was only 9 but I vividly remember the effect that news had on our town. And then when the killers were caught, they were tried in Garden City and kept in the jail there. That was a mile from my house and we drove by it every day. Truman Capote came to town to do research for his book, “In Cold Blood”, and later the movie was filmed in Garden City. When it was announced that Hichock and Smith had been hung, I don’t remember anyone cheering, but I do remember feeling that justice had been done for the Clutter family and that our town was no longer threatened by two men who killed so senselessly.

    The reaction at the debate, though, was to hundreds who had been executed and they didn’t know what crimes they had comitted, nor could they put a face to any of them. It was indeed creepy and chlling. That kind of callous reaction on the part of Perry and the reaction of the crowd made me think that we’ve gone back to the 1800s – and what would our country suffer if someone like Rick Perry actually got into the White House. I may have nightmares tonight.

  17. ed says:

    Careful what you wish for, Jeannie. Perry may have public executions before much longer.

  18. GoI3ig says:

    Another part of the debate that was interesting, was the consensus among the whack jobs that getting involved in Libya was bad although “Dubbya” getting us in to wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was good? WTF?

    I guess the right wing is really selective on who they want to kill?

    • Bev says:

      No, just who they want to support…repug says war, that is good…Dem says go to stop genocide and that is bad.
      No money also to be made for anyone as we did not have boots on the ground in Libya.

  19. GoI3ig says:

    I’m really not sure which is creepier. Perry taking pride in killing people, or the mouth breathers in the audience who are cheering?

    He dodged the question for the most part about innocent people who have been falsely convicted. With the advent of DNA evidence, many have been proven innocent after spending a good deal of time on death row. It’s disheartening to think of those who were executed due to flimsy “eye witness” testimony.

  20. Thomas says:

    What better way to show how “pro-life” you are than by erotizising the death penalty, warfare, and letting West Virginian miners die in the name of deregulation?

  21. Irishgirl says:

    “It’s up to you America, as the song almost says. In our presidential hour of need you could do a great service to the “Old Country” by gently persuading Mama Palin to stake a claim in the Park and delight us all with her no nonsense approach to political correctness. Where she would be free to roam the vast acreage, her natural habitat, no longer at odds with such annoying groups as the “snake-oil-based global warming Gore-gate crowd.” No more having to berate poor O’Bama for “coddling enemies” and “sending gold stars and cookies to the President of Sudan.”

    And we can only imagine what her proposed solution for dealing with the errant bankers who wrecked the economy would be.”

    http://www.anchoragepress.com/news/sarah-palin-president-of-ireland/article_53dd7b34-d9a9-11e0-a81d-001cc4c03286.html

    • Zyxomma says:

      That was totally hilarious. Thanks for sharing, Irishgirl. If you come to NYC this winter, I’ll buy you a pint (or two), and take you on a tour of the American Museum of Natural History (it’s one of my favorite places on earth; I’ve been a member for years).

    • leenie17 says:

      Anyone else have problems scrolling on Anchorage Press pages? I can’t move the page up or down and even tried the main page with same results. I also tried highlighting the text because that sometimes allows you to move beyond the bottom of the screen…no luck.

      Very odd.

  22. Kath the Scrappy says:

    OT, but I was looking for MSN news and stumbled onto this Dateline story.

    Mystery of Bootleggers Cove
    about a young woman missing in Anchorage 4 days after she started college there. Her name was Bethany.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44430427#44430427

    Not sure if anyone might have known her but sharing the link in case others want to see this.

  23. Corvus corax says:

    So dishonest, after all he did to impede the investigation into this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham

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